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Pantani
E, Silver
Joined: 19 Feb 2006
Posts: 692
Location: Notts
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 Posted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Tucker wrote: |
| Pantani wrote: |
| Joursans wrote: |
| Matteo wrote: |
I've just been to see the Tour in the Pyrenees and got a close up view of the bikes. Andy Schleck's spare bike for the Luchon-Pau stage had a 39x26 on, and Joachim Rodriguez had a 39x27 for the Pau-Tourmalet stage.
Considering the speeds that those guys climb at, attempting to ride in the mountains on a 39x23 is not very clever. |
Mmmmm - interesting. I wonder if 10-15 years ago anyone other than sprinters would have gone lower than 39-23 in the hills. At that level for pro's I wonder if the use of lower gears is just following the likes of Lance or if there is much science behind it (I've read conflicting analyses of the benefits of a higher pedalling cadence). |
I remember a good few years ago (when Festina were riding peugeots) they showed on TV a mechanic showing Virenque's bike and he said he either used 39x21 or 39x23. He used the 23 if it was the 3rd day in mountains on run or if his legs were feeling heavy. |
But again, how much faster did Virenque ride up the climbs than ben? The answer is a million times. |
Plus may only have been on 8 speed. So options were more limited without massive jumps
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benlane
Div 3 Pro
Joined: 11 Oct 2006
Posts: 3809
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| Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 7:28 am Post subject: |
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Well, I stuck with the 39/23. Like in the Alps I used the 23 for most of the climbs. For the cadence fetishists:
Aspin 66 rpm
Toumalet 65 rpm
Peyresourde 67 rpm
To counter that though - we did the Portet D'Aspet from Aspet and the last 3 miles are very steep with 17% sections. Cadence was a low 55rmp for this section and if I am honest a 25 or 27 would have been more comfortable for that sectin.
I guess it's personal but I think I prefer to have something to push against. When I ride the hills around us on the south coast of France they are probably not as steep as the Pyranee's but I look for the ratio that lets me pedal at this speed e.g Col De Castillion from sea level to 710m av gradient around 5% and cadence 68rpm.
I don't think I am a spinner though I might put a 27 on next month for South of France when I am back across and see if there is a difference to my speed, which is probably what we are all after, rather than looking like Armstrong whirring away at 95rpm uphill. |
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Ventoux110700
E, Silver
Joined: 13 Nov 2004
Posts: 1212
Location: Cuines
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| Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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| benlane wrote: |
I don't think I am a spinner though I might put a 27 on next month for South of France when I am back across and see if there is a difference to my speed, which is probably what we are all after, rather than looking like Armstrong whirring away at 95rpm uphill. |
C'mon you gotta admit a faster cadence looks better than a slower one 
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Tucker
Tour Winner
Joined: 03 May 2006
Posts: 15586
Location: Swindon
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| Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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| benlane wrote: |
Well, I stuck with the 39/23. Like in the Alps I used the 23 for most of the climbs. For the cadence fetishists:
Aspin 66 rpm
Toumalet 65 rpm
Peyresourde 67 rpm
To counter that though - we did the Portet D'Aspet from Aspet and the last 3 miles are very steep with 17% sections. Cadence was a low 55rmp for this section and if I am honest a 25 or 27 would have been more comfortable for that sectin.
I guess it's personal but I think I prefer to have something to push against. When I ride the hills around us on the south coast of France they are probably not as steep as the Pyranee's but I look for the ratio that lets me pedal at this speed e.g Col De Castillion from sea level to 710m av gradient around 5% and cadence 68rpm.
I don't think I am a spinner though I might put a 27 on next month for South of France when I am back across and see if there is a difference to my speed, which is probably what we are all after, rather than looking like Armstrong whirring away at 95rpm uphill. |
I've just checked on my bike, and despite the fact I've got a 34x27 on there, I've also got a 50x12 which I'm pretty sure will give me more to push against than I can handle.
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Dave Griffiths
E, Silver
Joined: 20 Jun 2005
Posts: 1111
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| Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 6:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Tucker wrote: |
| benlane wrote: |
Well, I stuck with the 39/23. Like in the Alps I used the 23 for most of the climbs. For the cadence fetishists:
Aspin 66 rpm
Toumalet 65 rpm
Peyresourde 67 rpm
To counter that though - we did the Portet D'Aspet from Aspet and the last 3 miles are very steep with 17% sections. Cadence was a low 55rmp for this section and if I am honest a 25 or 27 would have been more comfortable for that sectin.
I guess it's personal but I think I prefer to have something to push against. When I ride the hills around us on the south coast of France they are probably not as steep as the Pyranee's but I look for the ratio that lets me pedal at this speed e.g Col De Castillion from sea level to 710m av gradient around 5% and cadence 68rpm.
I don't think I am a spinner though I might put a 27 on next month for South of France when I am back across and see if there is a difference to my speed, which is probably what we are all after, rather than looking like Armstrong whirring away at 95rpm uphill. |
I've just checked on my bike, and despite the fact I've got a 34x27 on there, I've also got a 50x12 which I'm pretty sure will give me more to push against than I can handle. |
Some years ago, our top road guy did the Ventoux, very well, on 39x23 and considered that he did some real harm to his back. Its the fact that you're 'pushing' for an hour or more, not the fact that your pushing! |
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Matteo
E, Gold
Joined: 23 May 2003
Posts: 2620
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| Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Tucker wrote: |
| Pantani wrote: |
| Joursans wrote: |
| Matteo wrote: |
I've just been to see the Tour in the Pyrenees and got a close up view of the bikes. Andy Schleck's spare bike for the Luchon-Pau stage had a 39x26 on, and Joachim Rodriguez had a 39x27 for the Pau-Tourmalet stage.
Considering the speeds that those guys climb at, attempting to ride in the mountains on a 39x23 is not very clever. |
Mmmmm - interesting. I wonder if 10-15 years ago anyone other than sprinters would have gone lower than 39-23 in the hills. At that level for pro's I wonder if the use of lower gears is just following the likes of Lance or if there is much science behind it (I've read conflicting analyses of the benefits of a higher pedalling cadence). |
I remember a good few years ago (when Festina were riding peugeots) they showed on TV a mechanic showing Virenque's bike and he said he either used 39x21 or 39x23. He used the 23 if it was the 3rd day in mountains on run or if his legs were feeling heavy. |
But again, how much faster did Virenque ride up the climbs than ben? The answer is a million times. |
And he would ride up the whole of the Tourmalet out of the saddle while charged up on EPO, HGH etc etc.
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Ventoux110700
E, Silver
Joined: 13 Nov 2004
Posts: 1212
Location: Cuines
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Pantani
E, Silver
Joined: 19 Feb 2006
Posts: 692
Location: Notts
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| Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Matteo wrote: |
| Tucker wrote: |
| Pantani wrote: |
| Joursans wrote: |
| Matteo wrote: |
I've just been to see the Tour in the Pyrenees and got a close up view of the bikes. Andy Schleck's spare bike for the Luchon-Pau stage had a 39x26 on, and Joachim Rodriguez had a 39x27 for the Pau-Tourmalet stage.
Considering the speeds that those guys climb at, attempting to ride in the mountains on a 39x23 is not very clever. |
Mmmmm - interesting. I wonder if 10-15 years ago anyone other than sprinters would have gone lower than 39-23 in the hills. At that level for pro's I wonder if the use of lower gears is just following the likes of Lance or if there is much science behind it (I've read conflicting analyses of the benefits of a higher pedalling cadence). |
I remember a good few years ago (when Festina were riding peugeots) they showed on TV a mechanic showing Virenque's bike and he said he either used 39x21 or 39x23. He used the 23 if it was the 3rd day in mountains on run or if his legs were feeling heavy. |
But again, how much faster did Virenque ride up the climbs than ben? The answer is a million times. |
And he would ride up the whole of the Tourmalet out of the saddle while charged up on EPO, HGH etc etc. |
I was replying to Joursans' when he said about wondering 10/15 years ago whether anyone other than sprinters used less than 39x23. Not stating it would be sensible to try and use the same gears. Personally I would use about a 36 x25 or 39 x 27
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DenHaag
E, Silver
Joined: 24 Aug 2008
Posts: 521
Location: Northumberland
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| Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 8:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Ventoux110700 wrote: |
| http://www.bikeradar.com/road/fitness/article/technique-three-ways-to-pedal-faster-26895 |
Appears to be an advert for Q-Rings pretending to be something else. If most the Sky team were using them & they're so good well you know ... |
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Davey C
Div 2 Pro
Joined: 01 Jun 2008
Posts: 5503
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| Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 10:34 am Post subject: |
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| benlane wrote: |
Well, I stuck with the 39/23. Like in the Alps I used the 23 for most of the climbs. For the cadence fetishists:
Aspin 66 rpm
Toumalet 65 rpm
Peyresourde 67 rpm
To counter that though - we did the Portet D'Aspet from Aspet and the last 3 miles are very steep with 17% sections. Cadence was a low 55rmp for this section and if I am honest a 25 or 27 would have been more comfortable for that sectin.
I guess it's personal but I think I prefer to have something to push against. When I ride the hills around us on the south coast of France they are probably not as steep as the Pyranee's but I look for the ratio that lets me pedal at this speed e.g Col De Castillion from sea level to 710m av gradient around 5% and cadence 68rpm.
I don't think I am a spinner though I might put a 27 on next month for South of France when I am back across and see if there is a difference to my speed, which is probably what we are all after, rather than looking like Armstrong whirring away at 95rpm uphill. |
Having just come back from there tackling the Col de Marie Blanc, Tourmalet, Aspin and Aubisque I used a 39 x25 ighest gear and oscillated between the 23 and 25 on the back for those climbs. Whilst this was fine and I didn't feel at a disadvantage ironically the times when I wished I had a bigger gear was on the flatter sections. Here I felt I was pushing when I could have been using the opportunity to spin and rest my legs for the steeper sections.
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benlane
Div 3 Pro
Joined: 11 Oct 2006
Posts: 3809
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| Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 10:40 am Post subject: |
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| Davey C wrote: |
| benlane wrote: |
Well, I stuck with the 39/23. Like in the Alps I used the 23 for most of the climbs. For the cadence fetishists:
Aspin 66 rpm
Toumalet 65 rpm
Peyresourde 67 rpm
To counter that though - we did the Portet D'Aspet from Aspet and the last 3 miles are very steep with 17% sections. Cadence was a low 55rmp for this section and if I am honest a 25 or 27 would have been more comfortable for that sectin.
I guess it's personal but I think I prefer to have something to push against. When I ride the hills around us on the south coast of France they are probably not as steep as the Pyranee's but I look for the ratio that lets me pedal at this speed e.g Col De Castillion from sea level to 710m av gradient around 5% and cadence 68rpm.
I don't think I am a spinner though I might put a 27 on next month for South of France when I am back across and see if there is a difference to my speed, which is probably what we are all after, rather than looking like Armstrong whirring away at 95rpm uphill. |
Having just come back from there tackling the Col de Marie Blanc, Tourmalet, Aspin and Aubisque I used a 39 x25 ighest gear and oscillated between the 23 and 25 on the back for those climbs. Whilst this was fine and I didn't feel at a disadvantage ironically the times when I wished I had a bigger gear was on the flatter sections. Here I felt I was pushing when I could have been using the opportunity to spin and rest my legs for the steeper sections. |
Good man, did you muller Tucker and his 34*27 set up? Please tell me you did. |
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Robabank
E, Bronze
Joined: 31 May 2006
Posts: 340
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| Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 10:46 am Post subject: |
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| Ventoux110700 wrote: |
| http://www.bikeradar.com/road/fitness/article/technique-three-ways-to-pedal-faster-26895 |
1) Use a smaller chainring
2) Use a larger rear cog
3) Fit smaller wheels |
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Davey C
Div 2 Pro
Joined: 01 Jun 2008
Posts: 5503
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| Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 10:51 am Post subject: |
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| benlane wrote: |
| Davey C wrote: |
| benlane wrote: |
Well, I stuck with the 39/23. Like in the Alps I used the 23 for most of the climbs. For the cadence fetishists:
Aspin 66 rpm
Toumalet 65 rpm
Peyresourde 67 rpm
To counter that though - we did the Portet D'Aspet from Aspet and the last 3 miles are very steep with 17% sections. Cadence was a low 55rmp for this section and if I am honest a 25 or 27 would have been more comfortable for that sectin.
I guess it's personal but I think I prefer to have something to push against. When I ride the hills around us on the south coast of France they are probably not as steep as the Pyranee's but I look for the ratio that lets me pedal at this speed e.g Col De Castillion from sea level to 710m av gradient around 5% and cadence 68rpm.
I don't think I am a spinner though I might put a 27 on next month for South of France when I am back across and see if there is a difference to my speed, which is probably what we are all after, rather than looking like Armstrong whirring away at 95rpm uphill. |
Having just come back from there tackling the Col de Marie Blanc, Tourmalet, Aspin and Aubisque I used a 39 x25 ighest gear and oscillated between the 23 and 25 on the back for those climbs. Whilst this was fine and I didn't feel at a disadvantage ironically the times when I wished I had a bigger gear was on the flatter sections. Here I felt I was pushing when I could have been using the opportunity to spin and rest my legs for the steeper sections. |
Good man, did you muller Tucker and his 34*27 set up? Please tell me you did. |
I may have done.
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benlane
Div 3 Pro
Joined: 11 Oct 2006
Posts: 3809
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| Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 10:59 am Post subject: |
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Aspin is lovely isn't it? I guess you rode it from Ste Marie-De-Campan. We went the other way from Arreau, was a misty old day when we were up there, turned left and went over hourquette d'ancizan which was a nice little back road climb.
There were cows roaming the road on the Aspin descent which was fun. And Llamas around La Mongie, again roaming the road.
Wish I were back there. |
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Davey C
Div 2 Pro
Joined: 01 Jun 2008
Posts: 5503
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| Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 11:02 am Post subject: |
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| benlane wrote: |
Aspin is lovely isn't it? I guess you rode it from Ste Marie-De-Campan. We went the other way from Arreau, was a misty old day when we were up there, turned left and went over hourquette d'ancizan which was a nice little back road climb.
There were cows roaming the road on the Aspin descent which was fun. And Llamas around La Mongie, again roaming the road.
Wish I were back there. |
Yes, deceptively tough climb but beautiful. In fact, the whole area was. I could have stayed there for weeks.
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Des
Moderator
Joined: 19 Apr 2002
Posts: 16617
Location: Londiniumnova
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Davey C
Div 2 Pro
Joined: 01 Jun 2008
Posts: 5503
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| Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 11:30 am Post subject: |
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| Des wrote: |
For me, despite my notoriously bad ascending, and that the others dropped me constantly, I didn't feel the 25 was too bad except on the Marie Blanc, where I really wish I'd fitted the 27.  |
To be fair, I think you were relying more on the geological movement of the mountains to ascend them rather than your actual legs so I don't think a 27 would have made much difference. 
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Have you got any Triple Sod? Yellow Bentines? What about some Clarky Cat? |
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GZA
E, Silver
Joined: 27 Feb 2004
Posts: 888
Location: Chilterns
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| Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 12:42 pm Post subject: |
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Methinks most of this 'I was alright on a 39x23' really means, 'I couldn't be  to change the block, or am too tight to do so, but I got away with it'. Nothing to do with performance, looks, or comfort!
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Rich Hill
Tour Winner
Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Posts: 15034
Location: Coventry
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| Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Davey C wrote: |
| To be fair, I think you were relying more on the geological movement of the mountains to ascend them rather than your actual legs so I don't think a 27 would have made much difference. |
JEEZE - was Des THAT bad.... I am however remembering him blowing on TVRTC v1... so it could be...
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Des
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