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mattr
World Champ
Joined: 16 Apr 2004
Posts: 12647
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 Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 6:26 am Post subject: |
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| mho wrote: |
| Salsiccia wrote: |
| The TT is a completely different kettle of fish. |
Why? |
IOM TT riders don't get wiped out by inattentive motorists using the course to get to work/pub/church/IKEA.
Everyone on the course is doing the same thing, travelling in the same direction at (roughly) identical speeds.
Different types of risk.
Fairly clear you've missed a major part of the "argument".
(Not to mention the swarms of medical staff around at most/all major motorsport events, the body armour and protection available, run off areas, haybales and so on.
The average drag strip TT might have one or two St Johns and possibly a first aider. Wow, who the f**k does the risk assessments for these things?) |
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mho
Div 1 Pro
Joined: 28 Jul 2003
Posts: 9577
Location: going round the banking
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| Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 6:43 pm Post subject: |
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| mattr wrote: |
| mho wrote: |
| Salsiccia wrote: |
| The TT is a completely different kettle of fish. |
Why? |
IOM TT riders don't get wiped out by inattentive motorists using the course to get to work/pub/church/IKEA.
Everyone on the course is doing the same thing, travelling in the same direction at (roughly) identical speeds.
Different types of risk.
Fairly clear you've missed a major part of the "argument".
(Not to mention the swarms of medical staff around at most/all major motorsport events, the body armour and protection available, run off areas, haybales and so on.
The average drag strip TT might have one or two St Johns and possibly a first aider. Wow, who the f**k does the risk assessments for these things?) |
Clearly you did too.
As the risk in the Moto is the other riders then the conclusion is they should be removed. The risk is higher of injury from speed et.c hence the other mitigating factors you mention - all worthy.
The point I'm making is you are being just as biased in favour of your example as against the TT. Clearly some DC course need banning and the BAR is a major contributing factor. That said organisers are regularly cancelling events due to poor visibility in recent years and that is to be applauded (the old Andover course comes to mind).
I'm running a 25 on the "cheat course" on the 12 August. In my opinion its safe because traffic is light on a Sunday morning. That said I wouldn't promote in other areas of the country. BTW light means in English DC terms non-existant. You will be lucky to see a lorry.
If you are slower than 54mins there are 240 places for you to come and make an informed decision - the scenery is spectacular. |
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mattr
World Champ
Joined: 16 Apr 2004
Posts: 12647
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| Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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| mho wrote: |
| Clearly you did too. |
No, not at all. I get paid to assess and mitigate against risks (amongst other things). You don't "conclude" that they should be removed. Unless you aren't competent to be involved in Risk Assessments. You mitigate against them, by making changes, and minimising the risk.
The RTTC/CTT haven't done either (Assess or Mitigate) to any significant level. The organisers of the IoM TT have, to a degree.
Its probably down to all the secrecy and underground nature of the sport in the UK. Still. 
Other than that, i really CBA. Enjoy |
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mho
Div 1 Pro
Joined: 28 Jul 2003
Posts: 9577
Location: going round the banking
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| Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 12:13 am Post subject: |
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| mattr wrote: |
The RTTC/CTT haven't done either (Assess or Mitigate) to any significant level. The organisers of the IoM TT have, to a degree.
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Yet again a double standard when comparing two sports. The CTT have mandatory traffic counts and obviously have accident statistics so they have assessed the risk.
We just disagree on the need for mitigation or mitigating actions to prevent an accident. CTT have an all or nothing approach - the course gets banned. They have mandated helmet, recommended rear lights. Of course you are right we could all be made to wear protective clothing.
I'd wager the accident stats for motor cycle sport and ctt competition in the UK are broadly similar by extension the next logical step in moto racing would be the removal of the other competitors at the same time.
Each course needs to be treated on its merits.
Personally unless there is a real need I don't start in the wet and I'm wary of the setting sun. Other than that the courses in Wales are relatively traffic free. I know its different in other areas of the country but that's the reason for minimum standards.
Going back to our comparison - you can't legislate for a thoughtless inattentive car driver. However you could remove other competitors in moto events where the whole purpose is to overtake agressively in corners leaving riders to knock each other off. BTW I'm not advocating that's what should happen just following the logic of the argument. I suppose we are all liable to 'group-think'.
I notice in todays tour an organisation car knocked off a rider when faced with a choice of hitting a rider or another car. When even in our own sport we have so little regard for rider safety and car primacy there isn't much hope really. |
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Des
Moderator
Joined: 19 Apr 2002
Posts: 16900
Location: Harrow
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| Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 8:49 am Post subject: |
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Matt was referring to the IoM TT. which is essentially a time trial, not a mass start event, so other competitors aren't an issue unless caught/ catching other riders
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Zarate
E, Silver
Joined: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 1925
Location: Your guess is as good as mine, I dunno.
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| Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 9:58 am Post subject: |
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How does the IOM TT compare with the Wobbly Wheelers 25? One a high speed motorcycle event which is known to have the most risky course in the world if you get it wrong with all the street furniture and stone walls, buildings, etc. And with massive medical and safety cover.
The other on a quasi motorway in search of "fast" times, held Saturday afternoon, plenty of traffic flow, "fast" riders out on the edge of their lane to get as much traffic drag as possible, slip roads with vehicles entereing at speeds in excess of any rider, driver who don't (even if the should) ever look right just to check, minimal medical cover, some "cycle event" signs out, and no-one seemingly in charge - I've never seen a commissaire in a CTT event, just organisers and timekeepers, plus marshals (some of whom are absolute heroes). Then we wonder why serious accidents happen.
MHO, it may be quiet in Wales, but try most parts of England and see what the traffic situation is like even early on a Sunday (when half-canned party goers are aiming their cars (you can't call it driving, which suggests some degree of care and competence) home.
It's simply crazy, and the sooner CTT sort themselves out, get away from daft standard distances, "fast" courses, and run some REAL races where placings matter, the better, and probably safer for us all.
It has not been properly tried, but a season of the "new" way would provide real statistics to prove the case either way.
_________________
Mexican underwater chili eating champion 1957
Now much nearer to Mexico than the old country. |
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brinter
Cat 3 Groupie
Joined: 11 Sep 2012
Posts: 11
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| Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 8:58 am Post subject: |
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RIP  |
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