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Can you continue to support Cookson?
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Can you continue to support Cookson?
Yes
50%
 50%  [ 26 ]
No
49%
 49%  [ 25 ]
Total Votes : 51

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LocalBoy
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Joined: 24 Jun 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Plurien wrote:
Like I said;-" A bit like saying that cycle sport will clean up its act when other sports have done too, which would be never.."
- We can only focus on each sport in itself. WADA has rules that range across all sports, but each one has its own governing bodies, promoters and media owners. Football, basketball, baseball, tennis, golf and so on are all big money sports where there probably is d0ping to lesser or greater extent, but their actions will have little or no effect on cycle sport and the pressure on its athletes.
We're talking about the governance of cycle sport and it's not relevant to wait for others to catch up. Road cycling is the only sport where athletes are pushed for up to six hours for days on end, which makes the biggest difference for those who would d0pe. The only way to help them is to recognise the pressures within their sport and to operate the most appropriate scheme.
- We know the schemes of other sports are laughably poor, but we also can see that cycle sport's scheme is/was too, and there are those in charge of it now who can best be said to be in denial about what's been going on. You can look elsewhere and say we're already better than they are, but you can also look at the inconsistencies and say they need fixing.
- Last: If there are other sports and there is one that's riven with a never-ending d0ping scandal, which one are you going to put your money into? Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it. Cover ups come at too high a cost.


I accept most of your points but the key question for me is whether cycling is clean today or not and if not are the UCI doing all they can to catch the cheats? If the answer is that today the UCI are not doing all that can be done (within the law) then I agree there is a problem that must be addressed. However I have not seen anything to suggest that is not the case, on the contrary the UCI appear way ahead of any other sporting body on their approach to catching the cheats. One could ask the question why WADA and a group of individuals are so keen on nailing cycling, when other sports clearly have more cash sloshing about and are less stringent in their approach to doping?

This leads to the last point; why is cycling constantly targeted and riven with doping scandals when it is probably no less or more guilty than any other sport? Will we ever know if there are cover ups in other sports as nobody seems that interested in looking. While cycling and a large number of it's supporters are staring at their own navels the other sports are running off with the cash!

Sooner or later the sport has to move on and the reality is it needs to move on carrying some of the people with baggage from the past.
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Plurien
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agree with you, but I also definitely remember thinking in many previous years that cycling finally is clean. Especially in 2009, when I seem to remember there was a thread on 'ere that it would be good to see the sport now we know everyone's got to be clean. Right when the bio passport and all the latest tests were said to be in place.
If the UCI can't even agree with WADA*, USADA, CONI, IOC and so on...
If the UCI is turning on its own, having 'lost' its internal PR in favour of an Irish-based appointee...
If the grands tours organisers won't deal with it...
If the only route to evidence via an independent commission was cut off...by the UCI...
If the pros who've had to confess and ruin themselves in the wider context of cleaning up the sport see nothing back from the UCI...
- Doesn't it start to look like the UCI is acting only in its interests, but not in the interests of the sport.... which likely means it's acting in the interests of the people who are running it...?

If it's the Blame Game you want to play, that's up to you, but the issue has been for many years now of setting out the means to draw a line under the past and move on with a system that really does work. If the UCI can be shown to be acting against the present interests of the sport by muddying the water whenever you want to see which big fish are lying at the bottom of the pond, who keep on mucking up the clean water, you probably should find a clean stock to start over. Clean fish. Clean pond.

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This just in: REUTERS. LONDON | Tue Feb 12, 2013
*At a World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) media symposium in London on Tuesday, WADA president John Fahey said he had received a letter late on Monday from the UCI again requesting a truth and reconciliation commission.
"Was it asking?," he said. "It was more telling. It nominated four people from the organisation which did not include (UCI president) Pat McQuaid who would be representing UCI in such discussions."
Fahey said WADA had said all along it was more than happy to work out a way to deal "with this constant crisis which seem to surface in cycling".
He said, though, the process had to be under the management and control of the original independent commission.
"So I put those terms back, that's the starting point, it hasn't changed for several weeks. If they are serious they will talk to us," he said.
Fahey said the terms truth and reconciliation were "wonderful fancy words".
"I think we leave that where we should leave it, where it had some meaning and that is in days gone by in South Africa," he said.
"Only cycling can heal the problems cycling has, they're independent, they run their own sport, the same as any other sport in the world.
"If the members are prepared to continue to allow this lurching from one crisis to another then I guess we are going to continue to read about turmoil in that sport for some time yet.
"I would hope that within the root and file members of cycling there is recognition that it can't continue this way without there being some dire consequences down the track."
Especially note the bit about South Africa. That's a barb.
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LocalBoy
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Plurien wrote:
"I think we leave that where we should leave it, where it had some meaning and that is in days gone by in South Africa," Especially note the bit about South Africa. That's a barb.


Yes it is and totally unnecessary. Many of us of a certain age will have strong views about South Africa and about those who breached the sports boycott. That was a long time ago and if this is how Fahey believes you should conduct yourself, by taking cheap shots at others, perhaps he needs to go as well? Childish and pathetic; which seems to sum up a lot of the interaction between WADA the UCI and USADA.
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Plurien
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Er, I think Fahey is actually saying the same thing as you LB; that McQuaid's is a cheap shot to brand as 'truth and reconcilation' his next yet-another-failure-to-get-to-grips-with-d0ping.
The allusion to McQuaid's dodgy past there is a bonus.

With the sport's blue riband events now lacking so many recorded winners, there are objective grounds to Mr Fahey's comments. The UCI still can't even agree among its own on how Armstrong's career went along and it can't stick to a simple plan to allow its processes to be opened up for scrutiny.
When you're commenting on a pantomime it probably is excusable to be a bit slapstick.
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Tom Butcher
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LocalBoy wrote:

Yes it is and totally unnecessary. Many of us of a certain age will have strong views about South Africa and about those who breached the sports boycott. That was a long time ago and if this is how Fahey believes you should conduct yourself, by taking cheap shots at others, perhaps he needs to go as well? Childish and pathetic; .


Bit rich given your post on the previous page !!
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LocalBoy
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tom Butcher wrote:
LocalBoy wrote:

Yes it is and totally unnecessary. Many of us of a certain age will have strong views about South Africa and about those who breached the sports boycott. That was a long time ago and if this is how Fahey believes you should conduct yourself, by taking cheap shots at others, perhaps he needs to go as well? Childish and pathetic; .


Bit rich given your post on the previous page !!


Yes; but this is an internet forum!
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