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Training Zones
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Which Training Zone System do you use ?
4 Zone System
40%
 40%  [ 15 ]
6 Zone System
27%
 27%  [ 10 ]
Other
32%
 32%  [ 12 ]
Total Votes : 37

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Roy Gardiner
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Crescenzo wrote:
anyways, in my opinion if you're not good enough to finish an Elite race in this country it won't really matter what training you do.
Don't you think that's a bit sweeping?

- I wonder if an Olympic class track sprinter could finish such a race?
- Will a 1st Cat then do just as well on club runs as in an E/1/2 race?
- I can do what I like and still decrease my 10 time from 26 to 23 minutes? Or is it that because I couldn't get out of the neutralised zone in an Elite race, it simply doesn't matter what I do?
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Crescenzo
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Roy Gardiner]
- I wonder if an Olympic class track sprinter could finish such a race?
- Will a 1st Cat then do just as well on club runs as in an E/1/2 race?
- I can do what I like and still decrease my 10 time from 26 to 23 minutes? Or is it that because I couldn't get out of the neutralised zone in an Elite race, it simply doesn't matter what I do?[/quote]

1) Yeah, as long as it isn't 95 miles (see Tour of Cotswolds thread)
2) Club runs aren't races?
3) Thats what I did when I was a junior. Yeah, if genetics are against you you might as well take *CENSORED*.
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joxster
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Roy Gardiner wrote:

- I wonder if an Olympic class track sprinter could finish such a race?
- Will a 1st Cat then do just as well on club runs as in an E/1/2 race?
- I can do what I like and still decrease my 10 time from 26 to 23 minutes? Or is it that because I couldn't get out of the neutralised zone in an Elite race, it simply doesn't matter what I do?


Crescenzo wrote:


1) Yeah, as long as it isn't 95 miles (see Tour of Cotswolds thread)
2) Club runs aren't races?
3) Thats what I did when I was a junior. Yeah, if genetics are against you you might as well take *CENSORED*.


1)I finished the Girvan
2) We only raced to the cafe
3) Can people go that slow in a 10 Shocked without falling off Wink
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Roy Gardiner
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Crescenzo wrote:
"tester zone" - just under or over your AT.
it's not endurance training and it's not stressing your body enough to improve significantly.
How has that been established?
Quote:
in my opinion if you're not good enough to finish an Elite race in this country it won't really matter what training you do.
I'll try again. Why doesn't it matter what training you do if you can't finish an Elite race?
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Crescenzo
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Roy Gardiner wrote:
Crescenzo wrote:
"tester zone" - just under or over your AT.
it's not endurance training and it's not stressing your body enough to improve significantly.
How has that been established?
Quote:
in my opinion if you're not good enough to finish an Elite race in this country it won't really matter what training you do.
I'll try again. Why doesn't it matter what training you do if you can't finish an Elite race?


i'm not qualified on this - just going on what i've read/been told/etc.
didn't peter keen revise his 4 zone model to 6 after looking at how pros on the continent trained (when boardman was with Gan)? - and found they didn't train in Z3/4 and those zones weren't benefitial in any significant way?

with finishing elite races i'm assuming someones been trying for 3 or 4 years... i expect it wouldnt matter during those years what training they did - if they still can't finish an elite race then its time to accept it just ain't going to be.

i know 4th cats who have structured training programs and still havent got any points!!!! whats that all about?!
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Roy Gardiner
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

joxster wrote:
3) Can people go that slow in a 10 Shocked without falling off Wink
No. I have ended a season by falling off at the first corner of the first race of the year - a 10 - and knocking myself out Sad
Crescenzo wrote:
just going on what i've read/been told/etc.
didn't peter keen revise his 4 zone model to 6 after looking at how pros on the continent trained (when boardman was with Gan)? - and found they didn't train in Z3/4 and those zones weren't benefitial in any significant way?
I'd love to see the full story on this - I've heard something like it, but only as rumour.
Quote:
i know 4th cats who have structured training programs and still havent got any points!!!! whats that all about?!
That's people like me, always destined by genetics (as you alluded to before) to be useless, but want to be as little useless as possible.
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Badger
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Crescenzo wrote:
Roy Gardiner wrote:
Crescenzo wrote:
"tester zone" - just under or over your AT.
it's not endurance training and it's not stressing your body enough to improve significantly.
How has that been established?
Quote:
in my opinion if you're not good enough to finish an Elite race in this country it won't really matter what training you do.
I'll try again. Why doesn't it matter what training you do if you can't finish an Elite race?


i'm not qualified on this - just going on what i've read/been told/etc.
didn't peter keen revise his 4 zone model to 6 after looking at how pros on the continent trained (when boardman was with Gan)? - and found they didn't train in Z3/4 and those zones weren't benefitial in any significant way?


In my experience training at Z3/4 doesn't improve your fitness and just makes you tired. Best to ride at 1/2 and then do some hard efforts/intervals at Z5/6 but don't do three hours at 85% for training.

I once heard someone say that amateurs train too hard and race too easy and for pro's it's the other way round.
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scott
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[In my experience training at Z3/4 doesn't improve your fitness and just makes you tired. quote]
I agree it doesn't improve CV fittness a great deal, but its good for endurance.
In a race you probably spend most of your time in Z3/4, so why not train at that level?[/quote]
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incitatus
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Joined: 08 Jan 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Crescenzo wrote:
"tester zone" - just under or over your AT.
it's not endurance training and it's not stressing your body enough to improve significantly.
anyways, in my opinion if you're not good enough to finish an Elite race in this country it won't really matter what training you do.
i'd only recommend 6 zone training if you're a full time cyclist and you're on the bike every day.


It was my impression from trainright.com and published articles that Carmichael has shown this training zone, especially at just below AT power, to be excellent and prescribes a lot if this type of training to his riders who target the one day races; the point being that it does indeed stress the system, increase power at AT and give significant improvements without going anaerobic thus allowing one to train often at this intensity (on top of a good base naturally).
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Pocket Rocket
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Joined: 22 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Badger wrote:
Crescenzo wrote:
Roy Gardiner wrote:
Crescenzo wrote:
"tester zone" - just under or over your AT.
it's not endurance training and it's not stressing your body enough to improve significantly.
How has that been established?
Quote:
in my opinion if you're not good enough to finish an Elite race in this country it won't really matter what training you do.
I'll try again. Why doesn't it matter what training you do if you can't finish an Elite race?


i'm not qualified on this - just going on what i've read/been told/etc.
didn't peter keen revise his 4 zone model to 6 after looking at how pros on the continent trained (when boardman was with Gan)? - and found they didn't train in Z3/4 and those zones weren't benefitial in any significant way?

ah, thats what ya doin Very Happy

In my experience training at Z3/4 doesn't improve your fitness and just makes you tired. Best to ride at 1/2 and then do some hard efforts/intervals at Z5/6 but don't do three hours at 85% for training.

I once heard someone say that amateurs train too hard and race too easy and for pro's it's the other way round.
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baz
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Joined: 21 Feb 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2004 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I get out on a sunday, when i can. What zone is that. Wink
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training! what training ,just race yourself fit
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qcscmh
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2004 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

baz wrote:
I get out on a sunday, when i can. What zone is that. Wink


you only have 2 zones Barry, z1 all of race except finish z2 Wink
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baz
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2004 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

qcscmh wrote:
baz wrote:
I get out on a sunday, when i can. What zone is that. Wink


you only have 2 zones Barry, z1 all of race except finish z2 Wink


Not to sure about this zone's lark. I'm not to sure if thats an insult
or not. Laughing
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metroid
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2004 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

can anyone post a url to describe 4 vs 6 .. i just checked the interview posted here with Dr. Alejandro Lucia who talked about 5 vs 3 .. http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/?pg=fullstory&id=1346 !! //

actaually the feeling at the bottom of this article resonates..

"I get the sense that most of us have swung from one extreme of riding by “feel” to the other extreme of becoming robotic slaves to our heart rate or power monitors and ignoring our inner sensations."

i havn't ridden with a computer since the beginning of october and won't till january. i know i rode roughly 150km yesterday in roughly 5 hours, but i was listening to my body all the way, learning how it responds to what i do, and that's what it's all about for me right now.
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atrant
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2004 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Once you have decided on your prefered number of zones/levels how do you establish your own actual limits?

The original 4 levels system uses a principle of MaxHR minus a set number, so Level 3 is MaxHR minus 25-15, which is all very straightforward, but with the 3 to 6 zone systems that work on % do you take a literal 60-70% of your MaxHR, or use a formula such as the one recommended by Polar that factors in your resting heart rate, the 60-70% zone using this formula results in a very different heart rate from just taking 60-70% of MaxHR which seems to result in heart rate zones that are much too low.
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