| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Should it be more difficult to get / keep a 2nd Cat licence? |
| Yes, it's too easy, therefore increase points needed |
|
22% |
[ 4 ] |
| No, Man Up and do a bigger winter |
|
50% |
[ 9 ] |
| Who cares |
|
27% |
[ 5 ] |
|
| Total Votes : 18 |
|
| Author |
Message |
SteveT
E, Silver
Joined: 01 Aug 2007
Posts: 1078
Location: Abergavenny
|
 Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 12:41 pm Post subject: Handicap groupings - 2nd cats |
 |
|
Should 2nd cats be included in the middle group with the 3rds?
Seems to me that it's a relatively easy jump to 2nd cat then one hell of a slog to 1st!
The issue is, that once one has scraped the (easyish) points to get to 2nd cat at the start of the next season you are then chucked in with the E/1/2's at the first handicaps at the start of the next season - only to take an absolute battering and get dropped after 5 miles!!
DIYCBA!  |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Matteo
E, Gold
Joined: 23 May 2003
Posts: 2640
|
| Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 12:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Which races are you talking about? In our local handicap league the organisers use some common sense to put riders in an appropriate group. Stronger 2nd cats go in the scratch group with the E/1's. Less strong 2nd cats go in the group before with the majority of 3rd cats.
_________________
http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=Matteomjb |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
SteveT
E, Silver
Joined: 01 Aug 2007
Posts: 1078
Location: Abergavenny
|
| Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 12:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Matteo wrote: |
| Which races are you talking about? In our local handicap league the organisers use some common sense to put riders in an appropriate group. Stronger 2nd cats go in the scratch group with the E/1's. Less strong 2nd cats go in the group before with the majority of 3rd cats. |
Down here in deepest Wales - early season h/caps tend to be split purely on category and strength/age/experience don't seem to come into it.
How would you differentiate between 'strong' 2nds and 'weaker' - can see the logic but not sure how it would work? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Davey C
Div 2 Pro
Joined: 01 Jun 2008
Posts: 5745
|
| Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 12:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| SteveT wrote: |
| Matteo wrote: |
| Which races are you talking about? In our local handicap league the organisers use some common sense to put riders in an appropriate group. Stronger 2nd cats go in the scratch group with the E/1's. Less strong 2nd cats go in the group before with the majority of 3rd cats. |
Down here in deepest Wales - early season h/caps tend to be split purely on category and strength/age/experience don't seem to come into it.
How would you differentiate between 'strong' 2nds and 'weaker' - can see the logic but not sure how it would work? |
That's a route you don't want to go down Steve, how the hell do you judge until halfway through the season how well someone is going?
I agree with what you are saying, if I were to become a second cat tomorrow, (which, if a couple of the Maindy Crits go my way, could happen!) I would have a battering in early season H'Caps. Equally, if I were an elite I wouldn't be too fussed on having to ride with 4 other guys to catch a 40 strong group of 2nd cats.
I think the middle ground has to be - put the 2nds in with the thirds, but cut the time gap between them and the elites. Unless you know for a fact there are 2nd cats who take the pi55, in which case stick them in the elites also.
_________________
Have you got any Triple Sod? Yellow Bentines? What about some Clarky Cat? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
special guest star
Div 1 Pro
Joined: 23 Oct 2003
Posts: 6939
Location: waiting to jump/going down with pedals on fire
|
| Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 1:13 pm Post subject: |
|
|
2nds are just good 3rds! but 1sts aren't just good 2nds -  errr |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Matteo
E, Gold
Joined: 23 May 2003
Posts: 2640
|
| Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 2:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| SteveT wrote: |
| Matteo wrote: |
| Which races are you talking about? In our local handicap league the organisers use some common sense to put riders in an appropriate group. Stronger 2nd cats go in the scratch group with the E/1's. Less strong 2nd cats go in the group before with the majority of 3rd cats. |
How would you differentiate between 'strong' 2nds and 'weaker' - can see the logic but not sure how it would work? |
Like you said, you need to get quite a lot of points to move up to 1st, so there is potentially a big difference between someone who works hard all year to get/maintain a 2nd cat, and someone who races half a season because they don't want to move up to 1st. It's just a matter of the handicappers knowing the riders and using their judgement depending on who turns up on the day. It might not work in all leagues but it works well here.
_________________
http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=Matteomjb |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Voodoo
Div 2 Pro
Joined: 19 Oct 2006
Posts: 5675
Location: Park Lane, London / South Wales / Sparta
|
| Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 3:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
My club just organised the final of the Surrey League handicaps
I was the lead car for the 3rd cat group to start with
there was quite a few groups and it worked really well over a 10 mile curcuit.
4th Novice (1st race)
3mins
4ths
3mins
3rds
4mins
2nds
4mins
1sts & Elites
(might be a little different)
With an elite and a 1st cat rider catching the 4th cats in the final 500m over a 60mile race.
Perfect
Just give them a big enough gap and put them in their own group!
Wow I read the question wrong didn't I
_________________
http://uk.movember.com/mospace/289902/ |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MikeC
E, Bronze
Joined: 21 Nov 2002
Posts: 388
Location: Kettering
|
| Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 3:06 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Surely it depends on the quality of the field. So much of it must come down to how well the handicapper knows the riders' abilities.
Our local series has about 4 or 5 2nd cats who regularly ride. They all go in the scratch group along with the strongest 3rd cats because it is rare that a 1st cat or Elite rider turns up...when a 1st cat or Elite does turn up they tend to win it.
If someone does well in a group infront one week then they get moved back a group for the next week, regardless of their category.
The handicapping seems to work ok. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
Important Notice: VeloRiders copyrights all images appearing
on this website and in the Gallery. Images are displayed for viewing only,
and commercial or personal use of any of these images without the written
permission of VeloRiders is prohibited under international copyright law.
Copyright 2002/2013 VeloRiders. All rights reserved.
Powered by phpBB
© 2001, 2002 phpBB Group
E-mail VeloRiders. Comments, questions or send your photos
to , Order your photos@
