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Yet another TT fatality...
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mattr
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

officer bob wrote:
Right..

Why are people saying 'I want racing on duel carriageways banned?' when racing on Duel Carriageways is entirely up to the rider entering the race?


"Duel carriageway", I thought it was dodgy, but a 'duel' ? Shocked Rolling Eyes
TBH, it pretty much is a duel these days.
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Hans Datdodishes
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Roy Gardiner wrote:
Hans Datdodishes wrote:
John McC wrote:
dugpal wrote:

I will also add, I feel fairly safe riding down a duel carriageway in comparison to some of the A-roads I've raced down where cars/lorries come from both directions and cyclists on both sides! This is just as dangerous if not more so!!!
Quite.
Utter utter boll.ocks. Remind me again of the death/fatalities on DCs compared to single carriageways?
Yes, why not? It wouldn't surprise me if the advocates of DC TTs had one set of numbers, the opponents a different set.

So, the statistics anyone?


http://www.chad.co.uk/news/local/nottinghamshire-police-confirm-name-of-cyclist-killed-in-a1-crash-1-4364998

http://www.sundaymercury.net/news/midlands-news/2012/04/08/midland-a1-death-cyclist-named-as-60-year-old-man-from-leicester-66331-30716355/

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/8483446.stm

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest/432014/bas-clarke-killed-on-a1-police-seek-witnesses-to-collision.html

and I believe Ken Usher was killed on a single carriageway
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-16933110
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John McC
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hans Datdodishes wrote:

and I believe Ken Usher was killed on a single carriageway
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-16933110

As was Rob Jefferies, on a wide, straight stretch of A road with no parked cars or junctions.
What was the cause, bad driving, nothing else.
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Steve DT
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bottom line - why the f*ck would anyone want to race up & down A roads & DC's anyway? Standard times mean jack these days. My last TT was on the old Boro course (a fast 54 if I remember) - that was nearly 20 years ago & it scared the bejesus out of me then. Why anyone still does this crap now is beyond me.

Doesn't do much to develop the positive image of the sport really does it? As HDD says - the sooner this side of the sport has a reality check & gets the f*ck off those roads the better.
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John McC
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Normal A roads? Are you sure? Confused
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Steve DT
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John McC wrote:
Normal A roads? Are you sure? Confused


Yup. Though depends on your perception of 'normal A roads' really.

Example: up here there are regular club TT's round the Derwent Reservoir - part of the Tour of the Reservoir prem event course. It's undulating, badly surfaced in places and usually windy & wet. But hardly any traffic at all. And anyone who has raced those roads will confirm how hard it can be out there. Why not have a nationals on a course like that? Makes much more sense to me.

A while back I had to drive back down south & was on the A3 & passed an event on there. That road is all but a motorway other than its prefix. Absolute f*cking idiocy, unbelievable. Is that your 'normal A road'?
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John McC
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steve DT wrote:

A while back I had to drive back down south & was on the A3 & passed an event on there. That road is all but a motorway other than its prefix. Absolute f*cking idiocy, unbelievable. Is that your 'normal A road'?

I raced on the A3 a couple of years ago in a morning 25. Wasn't that busy and no major slip roads to cross (which is the real danger); the only potential hazard was the flat RAB which we had to cross near Liss, which ironically is definitely a non motorway feature. No real problem with that course in my view.

Just because a road has a traffic island separating traffic of different directions, doesn't in itself make the road dangerous to race on; we need to be a little more intelligent than that.
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Steve DT
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John McC wrote:
Steve DT wrote:

A while back I had to drive back down south & was on the A3 & passed an event on there. That road is all but a motorway other than its prefix. Absolute f*cking idiocy, unbelievable. Is that your 'normal A road'?

I raced on the A3 a couple of years ago in a morning 25. Wasn't that busy and no major slip roads to cross (which is the real danger); the only potential hazard was the flat RAB which we had to cross near Liss, which ironically is definitely a non motorway feature. No real problem with that course in my view.

Just because a road has a traffic island separating traffic of different directions, doesn't in itself make the road dangerous to race on; we need to be a little more intelligent than that.


Yeah - but you're a clown.

With 3 legs.
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caroline
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 8:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

John McC wrote:
Steve DT wrote:

A while back I had to drive back down south & was on the A3 & passed an event on there. That road is all but a motorway other than its prefix. Absolute f*cking idiocy, unbelievable. Is that your 'normal A road'?

I raced on the A3 a couple of years ago in a morning 25. Wasn't that busy and no major slip roads to cross (which is the real danger); the only potential hazard was the flat RAB which we had to cross near Liss, which ironically is definitely a non motorway feature. No real problem with that course in my view.

Just because a road has a traffic island separating traffic of different directions, doesn't in itself make the road dangerous to race on; we need to be a little more intelligent than that.


I'm afraid I agree with John Shocked

Oh and hello Mr DT nice to see you Wink
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Hans Datdodishes
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A1 is dangerous and races should be banned on it.
Disagree with that.
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Chrissylaa
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hans Datdodishes wrote:
A1 is dangerous and races should be banned on it.
Disagree with that.


I disagree,it should be:Races on it should be banned. Smile
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martin smith
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John McC wrote:


Just because a road has a traffic island separating traffic of different directions, doesn't in itself make the road dangerous to race on; we need to be a little more intelligent than that.


you need to be a bit more intelligent than that. it is the effect that barrier had on driver behaviour, not the barrier which makes the road dangerous. It increases speed and decreases the concentration required.

anyone who thinks they can do these kind of times unassisted is just deluded.
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Chrissylaa
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tipper wrote:
I reckon you could do some proper quick times if they let you do TT's in the hard shoulder of motorways.

It's a lane with no other traffic (maybe the odd broken down car you could squeeze past)

And if you ride close to the inside lane you can get the drag from all the lorries coming past

Rolling Eyes


That University education has not been wasted on you Tip. Smile

There always used to be a piece in Cycling Weekly when there was a big event on that the police had stopped some Polish,Czech,Russian team etc on the M6 or M1 training for TTT. Very Happy
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StuartBen
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Civil legal action was taken against a road race organiser and the BCF (sic) because of potholes allegedly causing a crash. The well known and experienced rider was seeking financial compensation That case was lost, but I have always understood that legal action was a possibility, which is why a properly conducted and registered Risk Assessment is so important.

It is hard to comprehend that a Risk Assessment for the motorway type TT courses with 70mph slip roads would stand up in court should legal action be taken against the promoting club and CTT.

My guess is that is likely to happen sooner rather than later, from hard experience last year organising a circuit event.
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Tony Bell
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's down to the choice of the individual, but there is no way I would even ride a bike on a road like the A1, let alone take part in a time trial.
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KJ
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tony Bell wrote:
It's down to the choice of the individual, but there is no way I would even ride a bike on a road like the A1, let alone take part in a time trial.


At what age should this choice be exercised?
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Hercules
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DC's with slip roads can be dangerous but A roads have dangers too, particularly where a TT is held on an out an home course. Once riders are coming both ways there can be dangerous pinch points when cars and riders converge. Why don't they try riding on circuits? Oops, they already do, It's called the Rudy project series...
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Zarate
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steve DT wrote:
John McC wrote:
Steve DT wrote:

A while back I had to drive back down south & was on the A3 & passed an event on there. That road is all but a motorway other than its prefix. Absolute f*cking idiocy, unbelievable. Is that your 'normal A road'?

I raced on the A3 a couple of years ago in a morning 25. Wasn't that busy and no major slip roads to cross (which is the real danger); the only potential hazard was the flat RAB which we had to cross near Liss, which ironically is definitely a non motorway feature. No real problem with that course in my view.

Just because a road has a traffic island separating traffic of different directions, doesn't in itself make the road dangerous to race on; we need to be a little more intelligent than that.


Well, JMc, I travel that road regularly for work, and there ARE slip roads, and drivers REGULARLY simply barge in, wnatever the traffic conditions. So what chance would you stand on a bike, crossing one of the slip roads (I can think of three in about 15 miles) when Mr Driver sideswipes you or pushes you into the path of the traffic overtaking. Do the words "not a lot" mean anything? And people like Officer Bob get to pick up the pieces of a totally unnecessary incident. I can't see any of the "fast" (joke) courses standing up to a professional risk assessment, a few signs and a heroic marshal with a flag won't do anything to reduce risk to medium or low, which is where it needs to be.

Yeah - but you're a clown.

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John McC
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 11:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I may be a clown, but you cannot use a simple quote facility without fcking up. Oh dear....
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mho
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Salsiccia wrote:
The TT is a completely different kettle of fish.


Why?

Every time both a cyclist or motorcyclist cocks a leg over the saddle on a road they inherantly accept a risk. No different comparing any form of racing (TT or Road) to IoM/Moto type racing.

In the former rider tend to be hit by cars. In the IoM TT/Moto GP riders hit each other or the surroundings. So following your argument all motor sport should henceforth be TT's rather than massed start because the risk is created by the proximity of other competitors in the main.
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