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mattr
World Champ
Joined: 16 Apr 2004
Posts: 12647
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 Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 9:12 am Post subject: |
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| officer bob wrote: |
Right..
Why are people saying 'I want racing on duel carriageways banned?' when racing on Duel Carriageways is entirely up to the rider entering the race?
"Duel carriageway", I thought it was dodgy, but a 'duel' ?   |
TBH, it pretty much is a duel these days. |
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Hans Datdodishes
T de F Winner
Joined: 28 Feb 2002
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Location: On the Superior Forum with the cool kids
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John McC
Moderator
Joined: 14 Jul 2003
Posts: 24510
Location: Leafy Barnet
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| Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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As was Rob Jefferies, on a wide, straight stretch of A road with no parked cars or junctions.
What was the cause, bad driving, nothing else.
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John McClelland's victory in the motor paced event with Derek Marloe on the derny was a thing of beauty (Oldmanof) |
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Steve DT
E, Silver
Joined: 07 Jun 2009
Posts: 1955
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| Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 7:04 pm Post subject: |
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Bottom line - why the f*ck would anyone want to race up & down A roads & DC's anyway? Standard times mean jack these days. My last TT was on the old Boro course (a fast 54 if I remember) - that was nearly 20 years ago & it scared the bejesus out of me then. Why anyone still does this crap now is beyond me.
Doesn't do much to develop the positive image of the sport really does it? As HDD says - the sooner this side of the sport has a reality check & gets the f*ck off those roads the better. |
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John McC
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| Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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Normal A roads? Are you sure? 
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John McClelland's victory in the motor paced event with Derek Marloe on the derny was a thing of beauty (Oldmanof) |
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Steve DT
E, Silver
Joined: 07 Jun 2009
Posts: 1955
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| Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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| John McC wrote: |
| Normal A roads? Are you sure? |
Yup. Though depends on your perception of 'normal A roads' really.
Example: up here there are regular club TT's round the Derwent Reservoir - part of the Tour of the Reservoir prem event course. It's undulating, badly surfaced in places and usually windy & wet. But hardly any traffic at all. And anyone who has raced those roads will confirm how hard it can be out there. Why not have a nationals on a course like that? Makes much more sense to me.
A while back I had to drive back down south & was on the A3 & passed an event on there. That road is all but a motorway other than its prefix. Absolute f*cking idiocy, unbelievable. Is that your 'normal A road'? |
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John McC
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| Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Steve DT wrote: |
A while back I had to drive back down south & was on the A3 & passed an event on there. That road is all but a motorway other than its prefix. Absolute f*cking idiocy, unbelievable. Is that your 'normal A road'? |
I raced on the A3 a couple of years ago in a morning 25. Wasn't that busy and no major slip roads to cross (which is the real danger); the only potential hazard was the flat RAB which we had to cross near Liss, which ironically is definitely a non motorway feature. No real problem with that course in my view.
Just because a road has a traffic island separating traffic of different directions, doesn't in itself make the road dangerous to race on; we need to be a little more intelligent than that.
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John McClelland's victory in the motor paced event with Derek Marloe on the derny was a thing of beauty (Oldmanof) |
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Steve DT
E, Silver
Joined: 07 Jun 2009
Posts: 1955
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| Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 10:19 pm Post subject: |
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| John McC wrote: |
| Steve DT wrote: |
A while back I had to drive back down south & was on the A3 & passed an event on there. That road is all but a motorway other than its prefix. Absolute f*cking idiocy, unbelievable. Is that your 'normal A road'? |
I raced on the A3 a couple of years ago in a morning 25. Wasn't that busy and no major slip roads to cross (which is the real danger); the only potential hazard was the flat RAB which we had to cross near Liss, which ironically is definitely a non motorway feature. No real problem with that course in my view.
Just because a road has a traffic island separating traffic of different directions, doesn't in itself make the road dangerous to race on; we need to be a little more intelligent than that. |
Yeah - but you're a clown.
With 3 legs. |
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caroline
E, Gold
Joined: 26 May 2008
Posts: 2306
Location: London
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 8:45 am Post subject: |
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| John McC wrote: |
| Steve DT wrote: |
A while back I had to drive back down south & was on the A3 & passed an event on there. That road is all but a motorway other than its prefix. Absolute f*cking idiocy, unbelievable. Is that your 'normal A road'? |
I raced on the A3 a couple of years ago in a morning 25. Wasn't that busy and no major slip roads to cross (which is the real danger); the only potential hazard was the flat RAB which we had to cross near Liss, which ironically is definitely a non motorway feature. No real problem with that course in my view.
Just because a road has a traffic island separating traffic of different directions, doesn't in itself make the road dangerous to race on; we need to be a little more intelligent than that. |
I'm afraid I agree with John
Oh and hello Mr DT nice to see you 
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Hans Datdodishes
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Joined: 28 Feb 2002
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Location: On the Superior Forum with the cool kids
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 10:11 am Post subject: |
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A1 is dangerous and races should be banned on it.
Disagree with that.
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Chrissylaa
E, Gold
Joined: 17 Apr 2009
Posts: 3382
Location: On a hillside desolate.
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 11:29 am Post subject: |
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| Hans Datdodishes wrote: |
A1 is dangerous and races should be banned on it.
Disagree with that. |
I disagree,it should be:Races on it should be banned. 
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martin smith
World Champ
Joined: 09 Jun 2003
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Location: shoehorning kittens into jars
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 2:31 pm Post subject: |
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| John McC wrote: |
Just because a road has a traffic island separating traffic of different directions, doesn't in itself make the road dangerous to race on; we need to be a little more intelligent than that. |
you need to be a bit more intelligent than that. it is the effect that barrier had on driver behaviour, not the barrier which makes the road dangerous. It increases speed and decreases the concentration required.
anyone who thinks they can do these kind of times unassisted is just deluded.
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Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes. |
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Chrissylaa
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Joined: 17 Apr 2009
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Location: On a hillside desolate.
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 9:55 pm Post subject: |
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| tipper wrote: |
I reckon you could do some proper quick times if they let you do TT's in the hard shoulder of motorways.
It's a lane with no other traffic (maybe the odd broken down car you could squeeze past)
And if you ride close to the inside lane you can get the drag from all the lorries coming past
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That University education has not been wasted on you Tip.
There always used to be a piece in Cycling Weekly when there was a big event on that the police had stopped some Polish,Czech,Russian team etc on the M6 or M1 training for TTT. 
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StuartBen
E, Silver
Joined: 21 Oct 2002
Posts: 1825
Location: West London
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| Posted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:45 pm Post subject: |
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Civil legal action was taken against a road race organiser and the BCF (sic) because of potholes allegedly causing a crash. The well known and experienced rider was seeking financial compensation That case was lost, but I have always understood that legal action was a possibility, which is why a properly conducted and registered Risk Assessment is so important.
It is hard to comprehend that a Risk Assessment for the motorway type TT courses with 70mph slip roads would stand up in court should legal action be taken against the promoting club and CTT.
My guess is that is likely to happen sooner rather than later, from hard experience last year organising a circuit event. |
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Tony Bell
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Joined: 06 Aug 2003
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| Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 11:22 am Post subject: |
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| It's down to the choice of the individual, but there is no way I would even ride a bike on a road like the A1, let alone take part in a time trial. |
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KJ
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Joined: 18 May 2005
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| Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 11:30 am Post subject: |
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| Tony Bell wrote: |
| It's down to the choice of the individual, but there is no way I would even ride a bike on a road like the A1, let alone take part in a time trial. |
At what age should this choice be exercised?
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Hercules
Cat 2 Groupie
Joined: 01 Sep 2006
Posts: 92
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| Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 3:56 pm Post subject: |
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| DC's with slip roads can be dangerous but A roads have dangers too, particularly where a TT is held on an out an home course. Once riders are coming both ways there can be dangerous pinch points when cars and riders converge. Why don't they try riding on circuits? Oops, they already do, It's called the Rudy project series... |
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Zarate
E, Silver
Joined: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 1925
Location: Your guess is as good as mine, I dunno.
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| Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Steve DT wrote: |
| John McC wrote: |
| Steve DT wrote: |
A while back I had to drive back down south & was on the A3 & passed an event on there. That road is all but a motorway other than its prefix. Absolute f*cking idiocy, unbelievable. Is that your 'normal A road'? |
I raced on the A3 a couple of years ago in a morning 25. Wasn't that busy and no major slip roads to cross (which is the real danger); the only potential hazard was the flat RAB which we had to cross near Liss, which ironically is definitely a non motorway feature. No real problem with that course in my view.
Just because a road has a traffic island separating traffic of different directions, doesn't in itself make the road dangerous to race on; we need to be a little more intelligent than that. |
Well, JMc, I travel that road regularly for work, and there ARE slip roads, and drivers REGULARLY simply barge in, wnatever the traffic conditions. So what chance would you stand on a bike, crossing one of the slip roads (I can think of three in about 15 miles) when Mr Driver sideswipes you or pushes you into the path of the traffic overtaking. Do the words "not a lot" mean anything? And people like Officer Bob get to pick up the pieces of a totally unnecessary incident. I can't see any of the "fast" (joke) courses standing up to a professional risk assessment, a few signs and a heroic marshal with a flag won't do anything to reduce risk to medium or low, which is where it needs to be.
Yeah - but you're a clown.
With 3 legs. |
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John McC
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Location: Leafy Barnet
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| Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 11:24 pm Post subject: |
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I may be a clown, but you cannot use a simple quote facility without fcking up. Oh dear....
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John McClelland's victory in the motor paced event with Derek Marloe on the derny was a thing of beauty (Oldmanof) |
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mho
Div 1 Pro
Joined: 28 Jul 2003
Posts: 9577
Location: going round the banking
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| Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 11:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Salsiccia wrote: |
| The TT is a completely different kettle of fish. |
Why?
Every time both a cyclist or motorcyclist cocks a leg over the saddle on a road they inherantly accept a risk. No different comparing any form of racing (TT or Road) to IoM/Moto type racing.
In the former rider tend to be hit by cars. In the IoM TT/Moto GP riders hit each other or the surroundings. So following your argument all motor sport should henceforth be TT's rather than massed start because the risk is created by the proximity of other competitors in the main. |
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