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Can you continue to support Cookson?
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Can you continue to support Cookson?
Yes
50%
 50%  [ 26 ]
No
49%
 49%  [ 25 ]
Total Votes : 51

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Zarate
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We have probably all had a prod at BC (in both senses of the initials), but here I can't see that BC (the man) is not doing his best at the UCI on behalf of BC (the organisation). It's probably a fine line to read in that committee. The main problem is probably old Hein, shift him and it might unblock a few things. Anyway the two appointed to deal with WADA look reasonable.
All this rowing with WADA, didn't it start with Dick Pound, and could it come down to some personality clashes - it wouldn't be the first time that major scraps have started because people at the top had personal vendettas rumbling on. This Fahey guy has just carried it on in public, but who knows what is happenig behind closed doors? No-one on here!
I think that Brian probably needs all the support he can get, who would envy his job, working around the viper's nest, and then getting battered on forums? You get the president you deserve, and nobody would blame anyone who does all this work for nothing if they walked away in the face of all the insults being flung around. But tha seems to be what some people want. Bet they wouldn't want to stick their heads up in the real non-virtual world though. Just like the diehard supporters of a certain gent from Texas, lots of noise and that's about it.
Time for another sunny day in Southern Cal, out on the old steed now...beats UK in February anytime.
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Trevor Reade
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whilst I have my own views on Pat and Brian (which I won't share on an Internet gossip board) I do know Andrew McQuaid is one of the 'good guys' who has a very good reputation for doing the right thing for his riders.

I know others in the sport have similar views (and have said so).
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De Rosa
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 7:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's amazing. You get British Cycling going through an unprecedented level of success compared with any time in its entire history where it is viewed by the various sporting governing bodies as a benchmark for the future; you have a stable management board; you have a sharp and sustained increase in membership; you have a highly effective CEO; you have more newcomers getting on bikes than ever before; you have many business leaders of large companies getting involved and seeking further involvement with the sport; you have our high performance athletes earning a decent living and being in the national press every day; you have new velodromes being built; you have off-road cycling circuits being built at an unprecedented rate; you have full-time BC regional events officers to help race organisers; you have a coherent youth policy for clubs to encourage young riders; you send British teams to world championships of every sort and come back disappointed if you don't bring a few rainbow jerseys back; you have a balanced budget;you have a flow of significant funding coming in over the next few years for not only high performance sport but also participation and capital projects; you have a development programme that can take young riders from the age of about 10 right through the system to being an Olympic Champion and/or Tour de France winner and you finally get "one of ours" on a senior position in the UCI from where he might, just might, be able to contribute to deliver some sort of change in the d-r-u-g-s issue.

And what do we do? We have a poll to see whether the President should have "our" support!

Presumably some on VR would prefer Brian to resign and the UCI management committee to be representatives from other, more "reputable" anti doping federations such as Spain and Kazakhstan. It is abundantly obvious to anyone who might have actually held any sort of board position in sport or business that Brian's best chance of making improvements to the future at the UCI is to work within the existing board structure to try to influence future policy and actions.

Not everything is perfect within British Cycling but it is better than it has ever been. Brian certainly has my vote of support and I am sure he will make a difference to the UCI.
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LocalBoy
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

De Rosa wrote:
It's amazing. You get British Cycling going through an unprecedented level of success compared with any time in its entire history where it is viewed by the various sporting governing bodies as a benchmark for the future; you have a stable management board; you have a sharp and sustained increase in membership; you have a highly effective CEO; you have more newcomers getting on bikes than ever before; you have many business leaders of large companies getting involved and seeking further involvement with the sport; you have our high performance athletes earning a decent living and being in the national press every day; you have new velodromes being built; you have off-road cycling circuits being built at an unprecedented rate; you have full-time BC regional events officers to help race organisers; you have a coherent youth policy for clubs to encourage young riders; you send British teams to world championships of every sort and come back disappointed if you don't bring a few rainbow jerseys back; you have a balanced budget;you have a flow of significant funding coming in over the next few years for not only high performance sport but also participation and capital projects; you have a development programme that can take young riders from the age of about 10 right through the system to being an Olympic Champion and/or Tour de France winner and you finally get "one of ours" on a senior position in the UCI from where he might, just might, be able to contribute to deliver some sort of change in the d-r-u-g-s issue.

And what do we do? We have a poll to see whether the President should have "our" support!

Presumably some on VR would prefer Brian to resign and the UCI management committee to be representatives from other, more "reputable" anti doping federations such as Spain and Kazakhstan. It is abundantly obvious to anyone who might have actually held any sort of board position in sport or business that Brian's best chance of making improvements to the future at the UCI is to work within the existing board structure to try to influence future policy and actions.

Not everything is perfect within British Cycling but it is better than it has ever been. Brian certainly has my vote of support and I am sure he will make a difference to the UCI.


Agree with you entirely; there seems to be a lot of bitter and jealous people around the sport; not only that they have managed to work out how to use a computer keyboard to post their negative drivel!
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

De Rosa wrote:
It's amazing. You get British Cycling going through an unprecedented level of success compared with any time in its entire history where it is viewed by the various sporting governing bodies as a benchmark for the future; you have a stable management board; you have a sharp and sustained increase in membership; you have a highly effective CEO; you have more newcomers getting on bikes than ever before; you have many business leaders of large companies getting involved and seeking further involvement with the sport; you have our high performance athletes earning a decent living and being in the national press every day; you have new velodromes being built; you have off-road cycling circuits being built at an unprecedented rate; you have full-time BC regional events officers to help race organisers; you have a coherent youth policy for clubs to encourage young riders; you send British teams to world championships of every sort and come back disappointed if you don't bring a few rainbow jerseys back; you have a balanced budget;you have a flow of significant funding coming in over the next few years for not only high performance sport but also participation and capital projects; you have a development programme that can take young riders from the age of about 10 right through the system to being an Olympic Champion and/or Tour de France winner and you finally get "one of ours" on a senior position in the UCI from where he might, just might, be able to contribute to deliver some sort of change in the d-r-u-g-s issue.

And what do we do? We have a poll to see whether the President should have "our" support!

Presumably some on VR would prefer Brian to resign and the UCI management committee to be representatives from other, more "reputable" anti doping federations such as Spain and Kazakhstan. It is abundantly obvious to anyone who might have actually held any sort of board position in sport or business that Brian's best chance of making improvements to the future at the UCI is to work within the existing board structure to try to influence future policy and actions.

Not everything is perfect within British Cycling but it is better than it has ever been. Brian certainly has my vote of support and I am sure he will make a difference to the UCI.
for the first point, you mean British riders rather than the organisation as it is the elite performers having that success and a large proportion of that can be attributed to the arrival of lottery funding. Granted cycling seems to have used that money much better than other organisations, but the elite performance group is not BC. Most of your other points could all be linked to that increased profile from Olympic and latterly road success. Personally I struggle to see what BC's role was.

In terms of the BC assisting race organisers, all I ever hear about is how difficult it is to organise events, losing events and the struggle of the Premier calendar. What do these people do?
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Hans Datdodishes
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LocalBoy wrote:
De Rosa wrote:
It's amazing. You get British Cycling going through an unprecedented level of success compared with any time in its entire history where it is viewed by the various sporting governing bodies as a benchmark for the future; you have a stable management board; you have a sharp and sustained increase in membership; you have a highly effective CEO; you have more newcomers getting on bikes than ever before; you have many business leaders of large companies getting involved and seeking further involvement with the sport; you have our high performance athletes earning a decent living and being in the national press every day; you have new velodromes being built; you have off-road cycling circuits being built at an unprecedented rate; you have full-time BC regional events officers to help race organisers; you have a coherent youth policy for clubs to encourage young riders; you send British teams to world championships of every sort and come back disappointed if you don't bring a few rainbow jerseys back; you have a balanced budget;you have a flow of significant funding coming in over the next few years for not only high performance sport but also participation and capital projects; you have a development programme that can take young riders from the age of about 10 right through the system to being an Olympic Champion and/or Tour de France winner and you finally get "one of ours" on a senior position in the UCI from where he might, just might, be able to contribute to deliver some sort of change in the d-r-u-g-s issue.

And what do we do? We have a poll to see whether the President should have "our" support!

Presumably some on VR would prefer Brian to resign and the UCI management committee to be representatives from other, more "reputable" anti doping federations such as Spain and Kazakhstan. It is abundantly obvious to anyone who might have actually held any sort of board position in sport or business that Brian's best chance of making improvements to the future at the UCI is to work within the existing board structure to try to influence future policy and actions.

Not everything is perfect within British Cycling but it is better than it has ever been. Brian certainly has my vote of support and I am sure he will make a difference to the UCI.


Agree with you entirely; there seems to be a lot of bitter and jealous people around the sport; not only that they have managed to work out how to use a computer keyboard to post their negative drivel!


Always amazes me how people can operate keyboards in such tight spaces and with no sunlight
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hans Datdodishes wrote:
LocalBoy wrote:
De Rosa wrote:
It's amazing. You get British Cycling going through an unprecedented level of success compared with any time in its entire history where it is viewed by the various sporting governing bodies as a benchmark for the future; you have a stable management board; you have a sharp and sustained increase in membership; you have a highly effective CEO; you have more newcomers getting on bikes than ever before; you have many business leaders of large companies getting involved and seeking further involvement with the sport; you have our high performance athletes earning a decent living and being in the national press every day; you have new velodromes being built; you have off-road cycling circuits being built at an unprecedented rate; you have full-time BC regional events officers to help race organisers; you have a coherent youth policy for clubs to encourage young riders; you send British teams to world championships of every sort and come back disappointed if you don't bring a few rainbow jerseys back; you have a balanced budget;you have a flow of significant funding coming in over the next few years for not only high performance sport but also participation and capital projects; you have a development programme that can take young riders from the age of about 10 right through the system to being an Olympic Champion and/or Tour de France winner and you finally get "one of ours" on a senior position in the UCI from where he might, just might, be able to contribute to deliver some sort of change in the d-r-u-g-s issue.

And what do we do? We have a poll to see whether the President should have "our" support!

Presumably some on VR would prefer Brian to resign and the UCI management committee to be representatives from other, more "reputable" anti doping federations such as Spain and Kazakhstan. It is abundantly obvious to anyone who might have actually held any sort of board position in sport or business that Brian's best chance of making improvements to the future at the UCI is to work within the existing board structure to try to influence future policy and actions.

Not everything is perfect within British Cycling but it is better than it has ever been. Brian certainly has my vote of support and I am sure he will make a difference to the UCI.


Agree with you entirely; there seems to be a lot of bitter and jealous people around the sport; not only that they have managed to work out how to use a computer keyboard to post their negative drivel!


Always amazes me how people can operate keyboards in such tight spaces and with no sunlight


The other superior forum could answer this question for you.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just feel disappointed and VERY badly let down that Brian has allowed this use of horse meat in Findus ready meals to happen. With all the lottery funding BC gets could he not have used just a LITTLE of the money to do random DNA testing on ready meals? WTF was he playing at? No one would have noticed. These people who give out the lottery millions would NEVER have noticed - they just write out the cheques and NEVER bother to track where every single ring-fenced penny is spent - everyone knows that.
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Hans Datdodishes
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And how did that lottery funding come about?
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hans Datdodishes wrote:
And how did that lottery funding come about?


Not sure - was it due to the TLI in some way?
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De Rosa
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PS it can't have been because of the WCPP as they were only interested in track racing. I know that's true because I read it on VR.
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LocalBoy
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps Cookson just has the facts. Assuming the veracity of this report the UCI have issued a "Evil or Very Mad or get of the pot" ultimatum to Ashenden. As I've posted a number of times there is a whole industry making money out of doping and it's not just the suppliers and users.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/uci-releases-armstrong-data-in-attempt-to-refute-ashendens-doping-claims
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

De Rosa wrote:
Hans Datdodishes wrote:
And how did that lottery funding come about?


Not sure - was it due to the TLI in some way?


I was wondering what would happen if cycling was removed from the Olympics. What would we be left with?
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you read my original posting you will see this issue is entirely related to his support for the existing UCI hierarchy and nothing to do with the performance of BC. I just fail to see how he fails to see that the UCI currently beyond redemption and lacks any credibility.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well cycling won't be dropped from the Games because Pat's said it won't...

Fair enough Guy if you want to draw attention to a lot that's been going right with cycle sport, but some on 'ere are on about the things that are wrong
- And that particularly means the way that the UCI has been dealing with the massive issues around its casual approach to d0ping.
Riders' statements about customs and practise in pro cycling brought the USADA 'reasoned judgement' about the sport's biggest ever star (measured by the highly unrefined filters of results, awareness and money) who'd been able to cheat with or without the UCI's connivance. The many sayings of WADA and its people surely can't be deflected by first ignoring things until that couldn't hold. Then to set up an independent commission, which you don't provide with the information it needs and then to say you can't back it because nobody else will pick up the tab.
As if this weren't bad enough, you then have the head of the UCI blaming anyone else but himself in his only interview (on Velonews) whilst acknowledging that only the UCI is responsible for its own anti-d0ping programmes.
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LocalBoy
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Plurien wrote:
Well cycling won't be dropped from the Games because Pat's said it won't...

Fair enough Guy if you want to draw attention to a lot that's been going right with cycle sport, but some on 'ere are on about the things that are wrong
- And that particularly means the way that the UCI has been dealing with the massive issues around its casual approach to d0ping.
Riders' statements about customs and practise in pro cycling brought the USADA 'reasoned judgement' about the sport's biggest ever star (measured by the highly unrefined filters of results, awareness and money) who'd been able to cheat with or without the UCI's connivance. The many sayings of WADA and its people surely can't be deflected by first ignoring things until that couldn't hold. Then to set up an independent commission, which you don't provide with the information it needs and then to say you can't back it because nobody else will pick up the tab.
As if this weren't bad enough, you then have the head of the UCI blaming anyone else but himself in his only interview (on Velonews) whilst acknowledging that only the UCI is responsible for its own anti-d0ping programmes.


I understand your point. However the UCI is supposed to be running cycling not running a covert intelligence operation to catch the cheats. The issue I have with the constant criticism of cycling and the UCI is one of equal treatment. I don't know of any other sport that has handled this type of issue because most other sports just do not take their responsibilities to catch the cheats seriously; it is too damaging and expensive for them. Therefore they haven't had issues like this to deal with and that makes it impossible to judge if the UCI have been effective or negligent in their approach; if you can't contrast and compare how can you be certain in your judgement?
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De Rosa
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Plurien wrote:
Well cycling won't be dropped from the Games because Pat's said it won't...

Fair enough Guy if you want to draw attention to a lot that's been going right with cycle sport, but some on 'ere are on about the things that are wrong
- And that particularly means the way that the UCI has been dealing with the massive issues around its casual approach to d0ping.
Riders' statements about customs and practise in pro cycling brought the USADA 'reasoned judgement' about the sport's biggest ever star (measured by the highly unrefined filters of results, awareness and money) who'd been able to cheat with or without the UCI's connivance. The many sayings of WADA and its people surely can't be deflected by first ignoring things until that couldn't hold. Then to set up an independent commission, which you don't provide with the information it needs and then to say you can't back it because nobody else will pick up the tab.
As if this weren't bad enough, you then have the head of the UCI blaming anyone else but himself in his only interview (on Velonews) whilst acknowledging that only the UCI is responsible for its own anti-d0ping programmes.


Fair point.
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Plurien
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

...and yours too, Guy.

Quote:
I understand your point. However the UCI is supposed to be running cycling not running a covert intelligence operation to catch the cheats. The issue I have with the constant criticism of cycling and the UCI is one of equal treatment. I don't know of any other sport that has handled this type of issue because most other sports just do not take their responsibilities to catch the cheats seriously; it is too damaging and expensive for them. Therefore they haven't had issues like this to deal with and that makes it impossible to judge if the UCI have been effective or negligent in their approach; if you can't contrast and compare how can you be certain in your judgement?

The UCI is responsible for any programme to keep the sport clean. McQuaid's latest interview confirms that, where he's moaning about WADA and USADA who have each had to step in where they see the UCI is beyond the brink.... and yet McQuaid is just moaning about others. (A bit like saying that cycle sport will clean up its act when other sports have done too, which would be never...)
Turning back to the recent past - when d0ping should already have been dealt with - it's obvious the UCI is up to its usual;-
"The Union Cycliste Internationale (UCI) said on Monday that an anti-doping expert critical of its passport program in fact reviewed samples from Lance Armstrong during his time on the Biological Passport review panel, and that Dr. Michael Ashenden had signed off on those tests as normal.
But a person close to the passport test results told VeloNews on Monday that the UCI was selectively releasing information in order to discredit Ashenden, and that another set of tests — taken during the 2009 and 2010 Tours de France — proves clear evidence of blood manipulation.
" Source: VeloNews Feb. 11, 2013 http://tinyurl.com/cte4qsa
It's up to the UCI to decide whether it will or won't run a covert operation to catch cheats. It just needs to run some sort of operation, any kind of operation which has credibility and consistency.
Road racing is an endurance sport in which PEDs can have a pronounced effect on the outcomes; that's why riders have been forced to d0pe or drop out. They are the victims too. If cycle sport wants to be seen to be clean - as it must do to remain within the codes of WADA, the national agencies and the IOC, as well as to keep the sponsors and media owners happy - it must come up with a way of catching cheats. It's had years to do this and still it's pointing out to WADA and in to the teams, as if consequences are anyone's but its own. We can speculate about omission or comission, but it's not working and the current leadership still twists to make its dealing opaque, whilst discrediting anyone with information that could help.
- How many more reasons to dump McQuaid and anyone associated with d0ping do you want? Whose support does he need and what's the good of him staying in place. He's not a witch, this isn't a hunt. He's the person who's been in charge when cover-ups were favoured over clear-outs. If he won't do it....?
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LocalBoy
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As posted earlier my concern is about equal treatment to all sports.

Currently the outside world and many people within cycling spend a large chunk of their time focused on the issues and problems; analysing the minutiae of every report or comment made by the UCI, WADA and all the hangers on who make money from exposing/providing doping.

Hindsight doesn't exist. I'm confident McQuid, the UCI Uncle Tom Cobley and all would have done things differently if they knew what the know now. I have yet to see anything that proves they had the evidence to take action against the likes of Armstrong and the dopers of the 90's and early 2000's. Yet we are focused on hammering our own sport and for what purpose? Is it helping? I don't think so.

Then we get this situation:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/tennis/21419330

Top players virtually begging their Sport to introduce proper testing. It beggars belief that the one sport that has attempted to address the issues of doping (even if it has been dragged screaming and kicking to do so) is the one that every one seems keen to hang out to dry for the problems it has.

Personally I'm tired of it; the fact that Armstrong and the majority of the Peloton cheated for so many years is history; what is happening today and how we can we improve things tomorrow is what is important. The past was so corrupted that it virtually makes it an irrelevance to where, hopefully, the sport is now.

Now some will say there is still plenty of doping going on today; well if you have the facts pick up the phone and report those involved to the relevant authorities; it is your duty.
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Plurien
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Like I said;-" A bit like saying that cycle sport will clean up its act when other sports have done too, which would be never.."
- We can only focus on each sport in itself. WADA has rules that range across all sports, but each one has its own governing bodies, promoters and media owners. Football, basketball, baseball, tennis, golf and so on are all big money sports where there probably is d0ping to lesser or greater extent, but their actions will have little or no effect on cycle sport and the pressure on its athletes.
We're talking about the governance of cycle sport and it's not relevant to wait for others to catch up. Road cycling is the only sport where athletes are pushed for up to six hours for days on end, which makes the biggest difference for those who would d0pe. The only way to help them is to recognise the pressures within their sport and to operate the most appropriate scheme.
- We know the schemes of other sports are laughably poor, but we also can see that cycle sport's scheme is/was too, and there are those in charge of it now who can best be said to be in denial about what's been going on. You can look elsewhere and say we're already better than they are, but you can also look at the inconsistencies and say they need fixing.
- Last: If there are other sports and there is one that's riven with a never-ending d0ping scandal, which one are you going to put your money into? Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it. Cover ups come at too high a cost.
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