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| Should David Millar have his ban reduced? |
| Yes - Date of ban brought foward |
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28% |
[ 24 ] |
| Yes - Reduced in time |
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10% |
[ 9 ] |
| No - No change to original ban |
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61% |
[ 52 ] |
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| Total Votes : 85 |
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SiH
Elite Poster
Joined: 08 May 2003
Posts: 218
Location: California, USA
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 Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2004 11:38 pm Post subject: |
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I can't understand the mentality that because most of the peloton are cheating that its ok for dave's ban to be reduced. DOes that mean that doping is ok if everyone does it?Or does it mean that we should forget about or reduced sentences because it is so common-place?
I agree he has something of a case for the period of the ban, dragging it backl to his date of admission. But really, he should have thought about how much he wanted to ride the 2006 tour when he injected the *CENSORED* in the first place.
He's got his ban, the dates are set, if he doesn't like it tough - he should have thought about that before he cheated.
saying it should be changed because other people cheat is like a gang member in South Central LA saying he shouldn't go to prison for a shooting because everyone else does it and haven't been caught.
and I'm a big millar fan!
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bonger
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2004 10:21 am Post subject: Re: David Millar Appeal |
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| Flabio Chubbolinni wrote: |
| Right, who thinks our Dave should have his ban reduced? |
Isn't he Franch or something? Any chance it can be doubled? |
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bonger
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2004 10:26 am Post subject: |
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| Stormer wrote: |
The ban length aside, both Millar and his sis are certainly making some huge assumptions.
The main driver behind him looking to bring the date forward is to start the Tour...err yeah right. (A) He has no team (B) He will have had virtually no racing.
I find Millar's arrogance stunning! That any new team that may employ him, that may also be riding the Tour in 2006 could throw him in just to win the Prologue  Pathetic twerp!!!
And...
Anyone coming back from a ban should be forced by regulation to restart as an amateur for a min period of 1 year, and to assist their National body with Youth education against doping. Not just jump back in to the comfort zone of the Peleton...call it putting something back into the sport *CENSORED*! |
I agree stormer, for all we know he might be too slow to keep up without the juice. Does anyone care anymore though? Has anyone got any enthusiasm left when it comes to the top professionals? I would rather watch golf or snooker. |
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bonger
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2004 10:29 am Post subject: |
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| jean jourdain wrote: |
Yes. On the grounds that 99 per cent of the guys he is competing with are not restricting their preparation to Effervescent Vitamin C and Brewers Yeast *CENSORED*.
Come on!! Get a grip!! His only crime was being too honest when the gendarmes turned up in that restaurant.
Look at it this way. If Millar was a working class lad - and therefore a bit more streetwise- he wouldn't have cracked as quickly as he did.
Compare and contrast how Virenque dealt with the Festina scandal, when he was caught bang to rights at the TDF in 1998.
So are we going to punish Millar for being a middle class bloke who didn't have the nouse to get down and dirty like the rest of the peleton? |
Maybe Harry Enfield could work on that, Tim nice but dim on steroids. |
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Dinger
Cat 2 Groupie
Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 69
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| Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2004 11:00 am Post subject: |
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| baz wrote: |
2 years from the date of admission, would be fair in my view.
Come on guys he's not murdered anyone. Give the guy a break! |
yeah, must say their is big difference between the reaction of David's peer group and the fans like us (who neither have the talent nor dedication to do what David did ).
Cycling fans seem outraged. O'grady, Lance and other just express a bit of dissapointment even sorry for David. Why is this?
David's ban should be reduced to allow him to return early in 2006. |
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AndyB
E, Gold
Joined: 28 Mar 2004
Posts: 2895
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| Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2004 11:42 am Post subject: |
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| Dinger wrote: |
| baz wrote: |
2 years from the date of admission, would be fair in my view.
Come on guys he's not murdered anyone. Give the guy a break! |
yeah, must say their is big difference between the reaction of David's peer group and the fans like us (who neither have the talent nor dedication to do what David did ).
Cycling fans seem outraged. O'grady, Lance and other just express a bit of dissapointment even sorry for David. Why is this?
David's ban should be reduced to allow him to return early in 2006. |
Crocodile tears both from them and also Millar. He tooks *CENSORED*, its as simple as that, he broke the rules put in place for fair competition |
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Steve D-T
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2004 9:56 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm going against the grain on this one - I think they should extend his ban and use this as an example. He's a cheat - and I dont dispute there are many more like him too. He should be used as an example and who gives a flying f*** if his career is ruined as a result - if I f*** up in my business I pay the consequences, simple as that. Why should his appeal be given any extra credence and support because he's British. Take his ban to 5 years and good riddance. |
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Mossy
E, Silver
Joined: 19 Nov 2002
Posts: 1610
Location: Dumfries-Bonnie Scotland
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| Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2004 10:36 pm Post subject: |
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| jean jourdain wrote: |
Yes. On the grounds that 99 per cent of the guys he is competing with are not restricting their preparation to Effervescent Vitamin C and Brewers Yeast *CENSORED*.
Come on!! Get a grip!! His only crime was being too honest when the gendarmes turned up in that restaurant.
Look at it this way. If Millar was a working class lad - and therefore a bit more streetwise- he wouldn't have cracked as quickly as he did.
Compare and contrast how Virenque dealt with the Festina scandal, when he was caught bang to rights at the TDF in 1998.
So are we going to punish Millar for being a middle class bloke who didn't have the nouse to get down and dirty like the rest of the peleton? |
what a let down you are Tony  did the toffee nosed git not go to private school as well  Of course he should be punished for that, the *CENSORED* thingy is just a convenient excuse to get at him. Ban him, point at him and call him names I say 
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NS
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2004 7:29 am Post subject: |
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| AndyB wrote: |
no, 2 years from his date of admission. and if you believe the crap he wasnt on it when he got busted, have a rethink will ya !
If they arent on EPO they are on something else, probably 5% of the peloton are relatively clean and he wasnt / isnt one of them.
Its still no incentive, all he has to do for 2 years is whack himself up on steds, go out training and then he can come back as a clean little boy, bolox, the guy is a *CENSORED* cheat and should be banned from UCI/IOC events as should the rest of them. Then we might get somewhere into cleaning this sport up. If athletics/swimming can virtually irradicate *CENSORED* in this way. why the hell cant cycling ? |
Maybe you can voice this opinion to his sister at the next revolution event. Or perhaps grab the mic' and announce it to everyone |
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JT
E, Gold
Joined: 10 Sep 2002
Posts: 2305
Location: Probably driving over the bridge...
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| Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2004 10:34 am Post subject: |
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2 years-from date of admission, let him back into a team-(lets face it he will have no worries getting one,Rik V and the festina boys did it ok as have countless others with no previous wins like DM)-then test him morning noon and night till he either tests+ again,quits the sport OR sorts himself out.Its should be a PROTOUR thing where every team pays to have its riders RANDOMLY tested by UCI or whoever out of comp more regularly. That would also sort out any kind of situation like phonak have found themselves in...having to decide wheather to defend their riders or sack them in order to keep afloat.....what a joke that is.
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bonger
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2004 10:58 am Post subject: |
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| sXe wrote: |
| I'm going against the grain on this one - I think they should extend his ban and use this as an example. He's a cheat - and I dont dispute there are many more like him too. He should be used as an example and who gives a flying f*** if his career is ruined as a result - if I f*** up in my business I pay the consequences, simple as that. Why should his appeal be given any extra credence and support because he's British. Take his ban to 5 years and good riddance. |
I have an idea, i might put posters and the like up in a few shops claiming i am going to do a long distance charity ride in Africa or somewhere. I reckon i should raise 3 or 4 grand in sponsorship without too much trouble. Then i'll keep all the money and never bother doing the ride, but i'll tell everyone i did it. If anyone ever finds out surely the most punishment i could expect will be that i can't do any charity rides for a couple of years, and that may well be reduced to one and a half, i could be off to Asia by the end of 2006  |
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Steve D-T
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2004 11:05 am Post subject: |
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| Exactly! And who says he wont do it again? |
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bonger
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2004 11:10 am Post subject: |
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Yep, he can't be trusted.
Nice to meet you again by the way, don't forget to let us know if your about again. |
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Ivan
E, Silver
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 1494
Location: Kypck
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| Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2004 11:19 am Post subject: |
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| Stormer wrote: |
The ban length aside, both Millar and his sis are certainly making some huge assumptions.
The main driver behind him looking to bring the date forward is to start the Tour...err yeah right. (A) He has no team (B) He will have had virtually no racing.
I find Millar's arrogance stunning! That any new team that may employ him, that may also be riding the Tour in 2006 could throw him in just to win the Prologue Pathetic twerp!!!
And...
Anyone coming back from a ban should be forced by regulation to restart as an amateur for a min period of 1 year, and to assist their National body with Youth education against doping. Not just jump back in to the comfort zone of the Peleton...call it putting something back into the sport *CENSORED*! |
Teams will be interested in signing him because he can win Tour prologues . It`s not arrogance on Miller`s part , it`s just a matter of fact. |
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Roy Gardiner
T de F Winner
Joined: 14 Jul 2003
Posts: 21249
Location: London and Essex
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| Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2004 11:22 am Post subject: |
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| Dinger wrote: |
| Cycling fans seem outraged. O'grady, Lance and other just express a bit of dissapointment even sorry for David. Why is this? |
Because, IMO, they all know the pressures he was under and cannot therefore condemn him. 'There but for the Grace of God...'
| sXe wrote: |
| ... if I f*** up in my business I pay the consequences, simple as that... |
At the risk of you thinking I'm making an unsubtle personal remark, which I'm most definitely not, imagine a business with six competitors all less competent but each evading 17.5%VAT; the first business is dead in the water. It would be under huge pressure to cheat, too, and would would feel hard done by if it alone were caught.
The advocates of rider leniency argue this way because heavy punishments will make no difference to the incidence of doping. This has been shown to be true in cycling and in real life. What works is increasing detection.
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Ivan
E, Silver
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 1494
Location: Kypck
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| Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2004 11:28 am Post subject: Re: David Millar Appeal |
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| bonger wrote: |
| Flabio Chubbolinni wrote: |
| Right, who thinks our Dave should have his ban reduced? |
Isn't he Franch or something? Any chance it can be doubled? |
Is he not half Scotch , half French ? Anyway , if I won the lottery and set up my own team I would sign David Miller.
I would also give you a contract , Bonger , your job would be to keep DM out of trouble , and encourage him when he`s down. |
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Ivan
E, Silver
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 1494
Location: Kypck
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| Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2004 11:32 am Post subject: |
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| Where`s Captain Bob Maxwell when you need him ? He would definately sign David Miller. |
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TBK
Div 3 Pro
Joined: 28 Oct 2003
Posts: 3984
Location: fighting the demons in my head........
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| Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2004 11:34 am Post subject: Re: David Millar Appeal |
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| Ivan wrote: |
| bonger wrote: |
| Flabio Chubbolinni wrote: |
| Right, who thinks our Dave should have his ban reduced? |
Isn't he Franch or something? Any chance it can be doubled? |
Is he not half Scotch , half French ? Anyway , if I won the lottery and set up my own team I would sign David Miller.
I would also give you a contract , Bonger , your job would be to keep DM out of trouble , and encourage him when he`s down. |
didn't he have a mate called Charlie to do that, according to Gaumont, allegedly?
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JimmyRay
E, Silver
Joined: 14 Jul 2004
Posts: 1838
Location: Exeter
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| Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2004 12:15 pm Post subject: |
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I certainly don't think it is arrogant of Millar to expect to find a team to return to in 2006. He is undeniebly a talented athlete, and where there is professional and commercial interest, there will be somone happy to employ him.
Should his ban be reduced? No. I think we have to set punishemnets and these punishments should be fully served.
Should his ban be backdated? Yes, Millars punishment should be exactly the same as anyones else, and if the precident is for the ban to be back dated, so it should be the case for Millar.
Some of the attitudes on here are totally scary. Yes the guy cheated, yes, he had a choice to make, and despite what pressures he was under it was still his choice and he should therefore be punished accordingly. However, when weighing up the pros and cons of making the choice he did, he did so with a knowledge of the potential pitfalls of this decision. I can't see how it is fair to suddenly post 'capture' to suddenly - and in a totally isolated and personal assualt - nail him to the cross.
I also can't see the relevence at all of bringing up the Revolution series. Yes we know who organises these events, but really what is the relevance? How is the work done on the Revolution series realistically affected by David's actions?
There is so much personal hurt and bitterness expressed on this thread that I think it is impossible for the majority to remain objective.
F**k it, lets have it your way, lets torch the f**cker and anally rape and murder every one of his family and friends. That way we can be sure to have a bit of fun ruthlessly destroying the lives of an individual! Maybe he should have thought about that before injecting himself with *CENSORED*. |
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bonger
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2004 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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| JimmyRay wrote: |
I certainly don't think it is arrogant of Millar to expect to find a team to return to in 2006. He is undeniebly a talented athlete, and where there is professional and commercial interest, there will be somone happy to employ him.
Should his ban be reduced? No. I think we have to set punishemnets and these punishments should be fully served.
Should his ban be backdated? Yes, Millars punishment should be exactly the same as anyones else, and if the precident is for the ban to be back dated, so it should be the case for Millar.
Some of the attitudes on here are totally scary. Yes the guy cheated, yes, he had a choice to make, and despite what pressures he was under it was still his choice and he should therefore be punished accordingly. However, when weighing up the pros and cons of making the choice he did, he did so with a knowledge of the potential pitfalls of this decision. I can't see how it is fair to suddenly post 'capture' to suddenly - and in a totally isolated and personal assualt - nail him to the cross.
I also can't see the relevence at all of bringing up the Revolution series. Yes we know who organises these events, but really what is the relevance? How is the work done on the Revolution series realistically affected by David's actions?
There is so much personal hurt and bitterness expressed on this thread that I think it is impossible for the majority to remain objective.
F**k it, lets have it your way, lets torch the f**cker and anally rape and murder every one of his family and friends. That way we can be sure to have a bit of fun ruthlessly destroying the lives of an individual! Maybe he should have thought about that before injecting himself with *CENSORED*. |
No need to go that far, a lifetime ban would make me happy, but whatever turns you on. |
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