BC HANDBOOK

[JT]

Should BC go back to a yearly handbook or stick with the new 'magazine'?
I shall be interested to see the results next week...................
_________________
If corn oil is made from corn, and vegetable oil is made from vegetables, then what is baby oil made from?

[ChrisB]

I happened to bump into Stuart Hallam at Tesco last night, and had a good chat. The handbook fiasco came up. He said there's no way BC are able to go back to a yearly handbook. There are more events under the BC umbrella now, with BMX etc, and the information for events later in the year just isn't available when the first installment is published in Jan.

He also said that the mistakes in the racing calendar are going to be rectified as a matter of the highest urgency. Incidentally, this is a lot easier now that it's only three months worth of dates to correct!

[Lee]

I have spotted mistakes from March through to October and it is impossible to make any concerted effort to plan a season even to the low level I compete. I don't see how you can say it is only three months worth that need correcting - as I see it the whole calender needs re-producing from scratch.

The only benefit of the quarterly format in this scenario that I can see is that the cost of producing 1 further issue will be far less than the old handbook would have been.
_________________

[ChrisB]

Lee,

they've only printed the first of 4 issues, so they only have to redo that one. Hopefully they'll get the next issue right first time. If it was still a yearly handbook, which would presumably cost more to print per copy than a single installment of the calendar, that would work out more expensive to correct...

[Des]

Still hate the magazine format, but a previous poll can be found at

http://www.veloriders.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1248
_________________
www.kentonrc.co.uk

[Mavis Enderby]

Yearly or quarterly is a bit academic as far as getting mistakes corrected in time for people who need the right info. Mistakes are going to happen anyway, so wouldn't it make sense to try and get the corrected info in Cycling Weekly. Don't forget we are still in the minority. There are thousands of people who aren't (and probably don't want to be) on the net.

[ChrisB]

Cycling Weekly really isn't the correct or desirable place to rely on for corrections.

As for not being on the net - article says that 56.88% of the UK population had internet access last August, and that trend is hardly going to be downwards. So we're definately not in the minority.

[SMB]

We used to have a book with all the races for the season, all the contacts you required, and all the rules and regs.

All for a fee of aboot £5

Now we have a handbook that costs a tenner and a rule book which also costs a tenner

BIT OF AN INCREASE I THINK!!! And worse for it!!
_________________
It never gets easier..you just go faster...

[Guest]

i agree with Mavis, cycling weekly would be a pretty speedy way of notifying of changes to the calendar, also, for BC would be free - no mailshots.
no matter what you say about 50-odd percent having internet access, cycling weekly has many readers who are not members of BC (and potentially could be members if drawn in...) or who are not inclined to even look at the BC website. or this one for that matter.

[Guest]

But of course there are now many people who are members of BC & other organisations who no longer waste money on Cycling Weekly. Why is a magazine which takes little interest in UK races the best place for this information?

I think you'll find a majority of racing cyclists have internet access, probably (though I have no facts to support this) a higher proportion than of the country as a whole. I know of some people who don't have net access but do still have email.

I prefer the current handbook format, only because the old handbook was never sent to me before late March even though I had paid for it in january.

[Guest]

quote: "many readers who are not members of BC (and potentially could be members if drawn in...) "
what about them? move racing cyclists even further away from people who ride bikes and may take up racing? what about other magazines like cycling plus? seems like the blind intent on not using magazines like cw and cycling plus ends up pushing racing cycling into an even more secular position because of stupid pettiness.

[Willi Tarran]

I am sorry to report that the opinion that " We can no longer go back to a single handbook" is just hogwash.

If cyclo cross can issue their own handbook why cannot road and track?

Sorry, is that a rude question that nobody wants to answer?

Road and track are the largest part of BC but continually we are treated as junior partners because we are the basis of BC. We are continually told that the other parts of cycling other than road and track are very important, but importance comes with contribution not how much you can rip out of the business.

One small thought, without road and track the other parts of cycling look pretty small and insignificant. They need R&T in the BC more than R&T need the other parts.

I remember clearly the debate on Mountain Biking some years ago. About how important it was and how we should tread carefully etc, etc. But what have we got in positive terms from the thousands invested in Moutain Biking?

Road and Track Racing, which contributes by far the majority of license and levy fees, is being badly served by continually having to put up with the c**p served up in the name of unity.

When the hand book was done manually in an office of 8 it was more accurate and better prepared even though the closing date for entries was one month later than now and the rules were changed on the 2 weekend in December. The handbook came out in late January every year. Very accurate as I recall on detail.

We have no more events, a longer time to get them right, rule changes much earlier but still the racing calender is a complete joke. More mistakes than a Guardian editorial.

One final thought.
Will somebody in the BC take responsibility for this continuing fiasco and either resign or sack the person responsible.

No I doubt it.

WIlli Tarran

ps If that does not get a response from someone it begs the question Are they dead? However I would just like to see someone do the following
A Admit mistakes have been made
B Annouce who made the mistakes
C Explain how the mistakes happened
D Describe how they will not happen in the future
E Describe how the mistakes will be rectified
F Solve World Hunger
If they cannot do A to E above try something small and achievable like F above

WT

[Des]

As a quality professional and a BC customer, I would be interested as to why this calendar fiasco occurred. Surely BC and their publishers have systems in place to prevent the duplication of and incorrect information making it thought to the final edition.

Larry as someone who works in an associated field, do you have any views? (without prejudcing your position, naturally)
_________________
www.kentonrc.co.uk

[ChrisB]

Willi,

Stuart said current priority was to sort the problems first, ask questions second. But he did say that a lot of money had been spent in getting the calendar produced, and that reasons for the cockup WOULD be found. He didn't say if he'd be naming and shaming, though

[Dave Wilkes]

HERE ! HERE! Willi - I understand that BC like to think themselves being run as a business, and in a professional manner. Well if this happened in business the person responsible would no longer have a job.

After so many years bleating on to the membership on how much has been lost on producing a handbook (£7000 springs to mind prior to the latest style - or was it £70,000? ) and STILL it isn't right.
And you're quite right too, that there are far fewer events than ever before, there's no rules to print in it, there's no lists of coaches, officials or club contacts - what the hell are they doing up at Manchester? seeing as there's enough of them after all??
_________________
The starting point of all achievement is Desire.
Napoleon Hill

[elaina]

Maybe the answer would be to get some new staff who know how to do the job properly - you know, proof reading, co-ordinating clashing dates with those who are hosting them, proof reading again etc etc.

Elaina

[Dave Wilkes]

yes, but so long as they sack some of the old staff first!!
_________________
The starting point of all achievement is Desire.
Napoleon Hill

[SMB]

Seems like there are quite a few people hopped on for a free ride to me,

wot's wrong with having a closing date for event details for the book as before and sticking to it?

In these days of computers and E mail then it should be possible more easily now than it was years ago!!!!
_________________
It never gets easier..you just go faster...

[Thomo]

The fact that there are many mistakes in this years first issue doesn't come as a great surprise to me. Last year the majority of Central Division's events were missed out entirely!
BC blamed it on the fact that someone didn't send the details to them in time. I asked them then why wasn't it checked - I mean a whole division's (& one of the biggest division too) listings missing would have triggered off some sort of warnings surely? It doesn't take much to just make a simple tick list to make sure they had everyone's events? (10 or 12 Divisions nowadays?)
They said then that they couldn't & wouldn't reprint it with the missing events added. What's more, when the 2nd issue came out - the events were only added in the corrections bit right at the back - they couldn't even be bothered to add them into the correct places in the main listings - even with 3 months notice.
So I say again - I'm not that surprised at the cock-up now.

[Willi Tarran]

I apologise if my last posting was a bit of a rant, but the continual cock ups are becoming more and more frustrating. Especially as I try to defend the BC Staff on most occassions. I suppose it is a hang up to the old days on the Executive Committee when it was my job to stand in front of the staff and defend them.

I hope that the matter is sorted out and the Falling Leaves Road Race and the Last Chance Points Grabbers are in the correct place in the calender. It occurs to me that if we had someone who had a feint knowledge of racing doing the calender as was done in the past, then these races appearing in the Summer might have rung a bell somewhere. Also there are only 11 areas to deal with now and not the 30ish division so the expected "We are overwhelmed with work" does not wash any more.

What is so galling is that a few years ago the BCF Handbook made a profit. No that is not a mistake, it made a profit and a substantial one. I agree that I am in favour of a magazine distributed to members on a regular basis a bit like the one distributed by the Belgian Federation. The excuse used is that there is a cost which cannot be attributed in giving items away free hence the loss.

Now as any fool knows, there is no such thing as a free lunch and anything given away, other than the common cold, normally has a cost associated with it. The trouble is that someone has deluded themselves with cross attributation accounting practices.

If we go back to a BCF style handbook with BCF Rules, Division Information, race calender and the rest, supported by adverts and sold for a fee we may go back to the old system of making a profit.

However that is probably too old fashioned for the new super computer driven BC.

Part of the issue as I see it is that some members of BC Staff see themselves as responsible to the organisation itself and the senior staff managers and not the membership, in fact some of the attitudes are such that it would appear that the wishes of the membership are last in the queue in being satisfied.

The trouble with a customer service organisation that forgets who is the customer is that it soon goes out of the business and will be replaced by an organisation that is relevant and deals with its customers as if they matter.

Unfortunately in the office of blind men, the one eyed man is emporer.

Willi Tarran