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| Which route is best for your son? |
| Join the WCPP/Under 23 Academy process |
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47% |
[ 31 ] |
| Go to France with Rayner funding |
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27% |
[ 18 ] |
| Follow the "Pierre" route ie coaching then French family |
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24% |
[ 16 ] |
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| Total Votes : 65 |
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AliCarr
E, Silver
Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 1143
Location: wolverhampton
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 Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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How do you actually get these places on teams abroad, I'd love to do that when i turn finish school for a few years, but never known which way i would go about it.
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Bob J
E, Silver
Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Posts: 1135
Location: Brittany
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| Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 7:57 pm Post subject: |
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| AliCarr wrote: |
| How do you actually get these places on teams abroad, I'd love to do that when i turn finish school for a few years, but never known which way i would go about it. |
I think it's usually through recommendations through others already on teams. People like coalminer would know the score. Sometimes you just have to take the chance to go and ride and hope that you get noticed. You usually have to have some good results to show potential teams though. If ever you fancy riding in Brittany let me know. (when your older) 
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AliCarr
E, Silver
Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 1143
Location: wolverhampton
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| Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 8:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Bob J wrote: |
| AliCarr wrote: |
| How do you actually get these places on teams abroad, I'd love to do that when i turn finish school for a few years, but never known which way i would go about it. |
I think it's usually through recommendations through others already on teams. People like coalminer would know the score. Sometimes you just have to take the chance to go and ride and hope that you get noticed. You usually have to have some good results to show potential teams though. If ever you fancy riding in Brittany let me know. (when your older) |
Well next year is my final year of A-levels and i'll be 18 in september and therefore probably one of only a few seniors still at school. I'd love to come over to Brittany and ride, i've never really heard much about the region on a cycling level but for me anywhere would be nice really.
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Bob J
E, Silver
Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Posts: 1135
Location: Brittany
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| Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 8:13 pm Post subject: |
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| AliCarr wrote: |
| Bob J wrote: |
| AliCarr wrote: |
| How do you actually get these places on teams abroad, I'd love to do that when i turn finish school for a few years, but never known which way i would go about it. |
I think it's usually through recommendations through others already on teams. People like coalminer would know the score. Sometimes you just have to take the chance to go and ride and hope that you get noticed. You usually have to have some good results to show potential teams though. If ever you fancy riding in Brittany let me know. (when your older) |
Well next year is my final year of A-levels and i'll be 18 in september and therefore probably one of only a few seniors still at school. I'd love to come over to Brittany and ride, i've never really heard much about the region on a cycling level but for me anywhere would be nice really. |
Ali, if you know Ian Potts, Jessica's dad in the Wheelers, talk to him, he'll fill you in with some useful info. Tell him Bob Jones told you.
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BigDave
Cat 2 Groupie
Joined: 24 May 2005
Posts: 93
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| Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 8:15 pm Post subject: |
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In my experience you don't need results (ok well a few which look good at the most) or need to know anybody "in the know". This is the BIGGEST MYTH about racing abroad. Just knock up a CV, look up the addresses on the internet and send it off. FFC.FR, velomania.net, velo101.com, veloreportage.com etc etc
A lot of teams (ok not the top flight ones) will put you up and give you a bike just on the off-chance that you're good. Don't believe any of this stuff about "you have to be able to beat rider X/Y/Z before you go" etc
Believe it or not, there are crap riders in every country so just go, learn the lingo, and apologise about your results afterwards
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AliCarr
E, Silver
Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 1143
Location: wolverhampton
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| Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 9:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Bob J wrote: |
| AliCarr wrote: |
| Bob J wrote: |
| AliCarr wrote: |
| How do you actually get these places on teams abroad, I'd love to do that when i turn finish school for a few years, but never known which way i would go about it. |
I think it's usually through recommendations through others already on teams. People like coalminer would know the score. Sometimes you just have to take the chance to go and ride and hope that you get noticed. You usually have to have some good results to show potential teams though. If ever you fancy riding in Brittany let me know. (when your older) |
Well next year is my final year of A-levels and i'll be 18 in september and therefore probably one of only a few seniors still at school. I'd love to come over to Brittany and ride, i've never really heard much about the region on a cycling level but for me anywhere would be nice really. |
Ali, if you know Ian Potts, Jessica's dad in the Wheelers, talk to him, he'll fill you in with some useful info. Tell him Bob Jones told you. |
I know Ian, will do thanks for the info. 
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Pierre Head
Div 1 Pro
Joined: 06 Apr 2005
Posts: 7839
Location: Albert Dock
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| Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Bob J wrote: |
| special guest star wrote: |
| i'd go to uni for the first year - enjoy that - feel connected to something - train hard all winter - then the following summer spend a season in France - then decide - the decision will seem a lot easier ! if you really have a chance of making it then you'll know by then - tell the uni to hold your place for next year - if you're in the nearly could make it league - i'd go back to uni and then back to France for the summer. But if you were that close to making it wouldn't there already be involvement with BC? |
I'd agree 100% with this post, it's not just about finding out if you really have the ability, it's also about living in a alien environment, learning a new language, different cultures etc etc. after one season you should know whether you want to take it further, or more importantly, whether other people want you to return |
I left the De Rosa's thread alone on this topic, for a specific purpose mainly, and that is, there are many on VR who would treat it as a summer holiday.
I prefer someone who can put a winters work in after being progressive the previous season.
Someone 21 or over preferably.
Any contacts I have wouldn't appreciate a plethora of winkers turning up, and so therefore jeopardize the prospects of the home nationals in the team.
I like to think that some sort of serious continuity is paramount if a rider is from the UK, and others may follow likewise.
Speaking the language is important, and so is sociability with the hosts.
Living with a French will mean faster integration, as domestic phrases are pretty much the same everyday.
And I have another one in mind for next season.
NB to all other t0ssers. Don't PM me, I'll just delete it.
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De lange zwarte wolk blijft mij volgen. |
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scotsbigfella
E, Silver
Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 1587
Location: opposite your house on a rooftop
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| Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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what results has this lad ACTUALLY achieved?
anyone can go and ride in a foreign country and earn enough to get by on.
if they are talented and disciplined they can go further.
education MUST come 1st.
he needs to make up his mind what to do.
cyclo x means nothing unless you are belgian
if you are looking for a coach i would talk to BC and ask for their opinions, certainley dont use PH.
common sense on frequency-intensity-time/duration will work just as well
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deano
E, Bronze
Joined: 02 Jun 2002
Posts: 405
Location: out training, well i should be
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| Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 9:05 am Post subject: |
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well people this is a very interesting subject.
i always wanted to be abroad and race my bike full time or 'Pro' but was apprehensive about all what it entails, living away from family, getting enough money etc to live on, when i was 18 on the national track squad it came to the crunch time when i didnt go to the Junior worlds and failed quite a lot of my college exams,,oops. so i decided Uni was my answer. 4 year degree with 3rd year in a job, still pedalled a little, then straight into a Job for 1 half years, still pedalling, then i thought i can work until i am 65 and earn money, lets have a go..
i am still having a go now earning so much money too, NOT, but i am enjoying the time of my life (and have done since 2000 now, i dont know what BIG DAVE is talking about either ) and living the dreams i always had.
guys who are wanting to do this for the money, stop there, get a real job cause we dont do it for the money.we, well I for sure do it because i love bike racing and winning races. i earned more everyweek than i do in 1 month now. but like i said i can work the rest of my life i cant do this forever at the level i am now. which i consider to be the best i have ever gone. just look at the options and dont have any regrets.. i know i dont have any.
dean downing.
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Roy Gardiner
T de F Winner
Joined: 14 Jul 2003
Posts: 21249
Location: London and Essex
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| Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 9:12 am Post subject: |
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Well said Deano.
It strikes me reading this that many of the guys who've actually done it seem to favour the route of striking out in Europe over a BC plan, where the votes here are the other way around.
Does BC have a network of European contacts to help young men like Deano make the move to Europe? For instance, Bob J is in Brittany and knows what he's about - Bob, do BC (or anyone) talk to you about helping to place young hopefuls in France?
Every time I raise a question like this Brian Cookson comes on and says 'Yes Roy very good (pat on head) not only are we doing what you say but X, Y and Z as well.' Look forward to it happening again  .
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Gary K
Div 1 Pro
Joined: 27 Feb 2002
Posts: 7115
Location: Toowoomba, Queensland, in Sunny Australia!!!
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| Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 9:30 am Post subject: |
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Our dedicated U23's are doing the PH route but with a slight difference. They do it for blocks of 4-8 weeks at a time out in Belgium, coming back for R & R and some other events inbetween and at key times in the season. It's long enough out there to race, train and get used to the way of life, but not too long to feel home sick, lost and forgotten.
IMHO, you need to do more than a few weekenders to get noticed as well, especially if you are riding as a team as our chaps intend.
Deano's method was and still is a brave one, but if you are that passionate about what you want to do, things get sacrificed and you don't think of the "what if's" of the future like money, job prospects, security, etc, though getting some sort of edumacation behind you might be helpful.
Most Uni's will take mature students who have a well rounded background and are seen to be dedicated and enthusiastic anyway, so the normal process of getting there does not have to be followed.
As Deano says, he doesn't want to live his life back to front like most of us do. Race at the highest possible level when he's young and able to, not kick ar$e in the LVRC events when he's retired! As I said, brave indeed. |
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Dave Griffiths
E, Silver
Joined: 20 Jun 2005
Posts: 1181
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| Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 9:42 am Post subject: |
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Great to read of: Deano's 'actual' experience - sending most of us 'old 'uns' crazy (with envy) I suspect.
A few successful riders 'appear or claim' to have made 'decent money' and I know one lesser rider who definitely did well (and looked after his earnings VERY well) but as Deano says, most don't think about much other than the moment - and I don't blame them. I do enjoy life in general and not 'just' cycling but when you're young?
Re Roys' comments on the 'poll' - well, one has to take into account De Rosa's brief: I have a son etc. That forces one to look at the question 'in the round'. I certainly didn't 'try and persuade or steer my quite promising son' in that direction. It is up to the young person, they have to have that 'passion' and THEN you 'might' be right to assist them in making, what you feel, is the best decision. My lad doesn't even HAVE a bike today, whereas myself .... I'm still dreaming! |
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marlboro man
Div 2 Pro
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 5873
Location: Derkaderkastan
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| Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 10:12 am Post subject: |
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One question that doesn't appear to have been asked is whether De Rosa Junior has a coach? If so, what are the coach's views on what De Rosa Junior should do?
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Hans Datdodishes
T de F Winner
Joined: 28 Feb 2002
Posts: 28370
Location: On the Superior Forum with the cool kids
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| Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 10:16 am Post subject: |
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Slight aside, I did suggest to Deano and JayCee that there might be some money to be had in buying some crappy houses in Ghent/wherever and letting them out to cyclists/federations, obvious downside being voids in Winter months.
Has Tim Harris done something like this?
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Richard Lodge
E, Bronze
Joined: 01 Jul 2003
Posts: 388
Location: Solihull, West Midlands
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| Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 10:23 am Post subject: |
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| Roy Gardiner wrote: |
It strikes me reading this that many of the guys who've actually done it seem to favour the route of striking out in Europe over a BC plan, where the votes here are the other way around.
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Roy, I think thats just in the way the Poll situation is described- de Rosa sets out the 3 "choices" that the rider has, whereas in reality how many 18 year olds get offered a place on WCPP/Academy, very few (not saying this is a bad thing as Plan/Academy really want to focus on the medals). So for the several tens if not hundereds of other 18 year olds, there is no choice - just got to get over there and do it, by whichever route -Rayner/PH/Gary K type set-up/etc
One thing that always puzzles me is this fascination with going to France to get a Pro contract - just how many riders from the UK have made it via this route in recent years? In that respect is good to see the Academy riders getting placed in a German team, and we know a few riders do go to Spain/Portugal/Belgium and Holland, and now we have riders like Dan Lloyd David McCann Steve Gallagher and others picking up places on *CENSORED* teams - |
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Will Scarlet
E, Silver
Joined: 31 Dec 2002
Posts: 1734
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| Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 11:26 am Post subject: |
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| I see from Deano's interview on cyclingnews that he is 31 now and didn't go to Belgium until he was 25/26. It would be interesting to hear whether he has any regrets about not going earlier. |
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Richard
World Champ
Joined: 28 Jun 2002
Posts: 14007
Location: Coventry
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| Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 11:38 am Post subject: |
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| Tory Tim wrote: |
Slight aside, I did suggest to Deano and JayCee that there might be some money to be had in buying some crappy houses in Ghent/wherever and letting them out to cyclists/federations, obvious downside being voids in Winter months.
Has Tim Harris done something like this? |
cyclo-cross anyone? Surely Belgium can accomodate the Brits who go aborad for the Christmas period,etc and who wish to race off-road?
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Richard
World Champ
Joined: 28 Jun 2002
Posts: 14007
Location: Coventry
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| Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 11:50 am Post subject: |
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| deano wrote: |
| when i was 18 on the national track squad it came to the crunch time when i didnt go to the Junior worlds and failed quite a lot of my college exams,,oops. so i decided Uni was my answer. |
Deano, can I ask you something? Do you feel that if you'd have had the level of support at the age of 18 that the current guys have with regards to (well) pretty much everything, that you would have felt you could continue to carry on for another 2 years to try and get somewhere? It seems a drastic decision to make at what can be looked at to be a tender age to give up cycling in favour of education?
It seems that at this age a lot of factors can loom large in a young person's life and perhaps you might have benefitted from some form of guidance?
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Pierre Head
Div 1 Pro
Joined: 06 Apr 2005
Posts: 7839
Location: Albert Dock
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| Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 12:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Gary K wrote: |
Our dedicated U23's are doing the PH route but with a slight difference. They do it for blocks of 4-8 weeks at a time out in Belgium, coming back for R & R and some other events inbetween and at key times in the season. It's long enough out there to race, train and get used to the way of life, but not too long to feel home sick, lost and forgotten.
IMHO, you need to do more than a few weekenders to get noticed as well, especially if you are riding as a team as our chaps intend. |
I'm afraid that my people want the riders to work all season in the team, and not go poncing about backwards and forwards when they feel like it. It creates bad blood. It seems to me that if you want it bad enough, you'll stick at it. As Muhammed Ali said "When you are a contender, you only get one shot at the title."
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deano
E, Bronze
Joined: 02 Jun 2002
Posts: 405
Location: out training, well i should be
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| Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 12:32 pm Post subject: |
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tim harris is doing exactly that yes around the area where i stay now..
if i had had the support the young lads have nowadays when i was 18, i have a feeling i wouldnt be riding with the team i am with now.
but then i prob wouldnt be able earn money with my degreei have when i finish racing around.
i did have the support of my then coach Ken Matheson who taught me all i know about my self today.
i dont regret not going to belgium earlier as that is just the way my life took me.
now i have everything that makes me happy, racing hard on my bike and a great personal life to go with it.
its just a choice thing i reckon.plus u gotta have the passion and the balls to do it of course.
althought i didnt like my choise of timing to go out on the bike today, we got wet for the 1st 20 mins.
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