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| Should we be proud of our boys? |
| Yes |
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76% |
[ 39 ] |
| No |
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1% |
[ 1 ] |
| Don't care |
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21% |
[ 11 ] |
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| Total Votes : 51 |
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Billynobrakes
Div 1 Pro
Joined: 30 Apr 2003
Posts: 7147
Location: Newark on Trent
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 Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 11:28 pm Post subject: Brits in TDF |
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Should we be proud of the efforts of Wiggins and Millar this year?
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MercMan
E, Bronze
Joined: 01 Feb 2003
Posts: 446
Location: Half a wheel behind Clive
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| Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 11:51 pm Post subject: |
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| They're both still in there, so why not? Wiggins got himself in a break and Millar has ridden O.K. throughout, which is a good effort despite no racing for two years. |
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De Rosa
World Champ
Joined: 04 Dec 2002
Posts: 10485
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| Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 6:30 am Post subject: |
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Of course we should and I am surprised the question is even being asked. Adrian Timmis comes on VR - ask him what the tour is like as a domestique. To get to Paris is an outstanding achievement qwhich few riders achieve in their career.
We go on and on about things like the Etape and yet the winner was half an hour behind the slowest TDF rider on that stage. |
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Roy Gardiner
T de F Winner
Joined: 14 Jul 2003
Posts: 21249
Location: London and Essex
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| Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 7:34 am Post subject: |
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| De Rosa wrote: |
| We go on and on about things like the Etape and yet the winner was half an hour behind the slowest TDF rider on that stage. |
Interesting, I've heard about this comparison before; has the Etape winner ever finished faster than any of the professionals?
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hed
World Champ
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 12377
Location: on my hoods.
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| Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 8:08 am Post subject: |
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millar has had a good return to pro cycling after his ban, i'm sure he'll be happy to get to paris and happy to be racing again.
wiggins will be pleased i think, but more importantly his team will be pleased with what he has done for them, especially chavanel the other day.
so both can be proud and we can be proud of them.
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PeteMcCosh
E, Silver
Joined: 11 Mar 2004
Posts: 841
Location: North of the North
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| Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 11:30 am Post subject: |
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| De Rosa wrote: |
Of course we should and I am surprised the question is even being asked. Adrian Timmis comes on VR - ask him what the tour is like as a domestique. To get to Paris is an outstanding achievement which few riders achieve in their career.
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I would definitely agree with that. However, there will be 140 guys crossing the finish line on Sunday and I don't really see any reason to single some of them out for extra praise just because they have the same passport as me.
One of the things I've always liked about following cycling - unlike most other sports - is that you don't really support a rider or a team, but appreciate the racing and the tactics as a whole. Obviously, you have personal heroes and villains but I find it's hard to be partisan in the face of a good ride or clever wearing down of an opponent.
After years of watching Belgians and Kazakhs riding for Spanish and German teams in French and Italian races, it seems pointless to make an issue about where a rider comes from. At a slight tangent, it's always been a problem for me the way commentators go on about "English speaking" riders.
So, do I admire them? Yes. Most definitely. I was even more impressed, on checking the overall standings, to see Millar was only 10 minutes behind Voigt and De La Fuente on GC.
Am I proud because they're two of my 60 million compatriots? No. |
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Le Rolleur
E, Bronze
Joined: 22 Feb 2006
Posts: 392
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| Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 11:37 am Post subject: |
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I am amazed that Millar has prepared himself to get through all the mountain stages just from training in the UK countryside!  So yes, very impressed. Hopefully he can build on it for the Vuelta.
Wiggins... first tour, doing pretty well. Still got a lot of maturing to do as a road rider so impressed by him also.
I think we should be amazed that any of our domestic racers reach TDF level at all when you consider how hard it is to get in a continental pro tour team.
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hed
World Champ
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 12377
Location: on my hoods.
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| Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 11:38 am Post subject: |
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[/quote]Am I proud because they're two of my 60 million compatriots? No.[/quote]
what hope has british cycling got if we (british cyclists) don't get behind british riders when they compete, or are we now not british but just english speaking?
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Badger
E, Gold
Joined: 14 Jun 2004
Posts: 2822
Location: Trying not to say 'basically'
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| Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 11:42 am Post subject: |
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I heard once that in a 10 year cycle only 500 riders finish the TdeF. Not sure if that is true
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Cary de Weigh
E, Silver
Joined: 01 Jun 2006
Posts: 810
Location: Birmingham
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| Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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Of course I'm proud of 'em. Anyone who finishes the Tour demands respect. That's why I think Adrian Timmis was one of the best (unsung) British riders of his generation.
Cycling will never become a mainstream sport until youngsters here have a British hero to inspire them to choose cycling ahead of football. |
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troy spartan
E, Gold
Joined: 04 Apr 2004
Posts: 2605
Location: peoples republic of south yorkshire
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| Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 4:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Roy Gardiner wrote: |
| De Rosa wrote: |
| We go on and on about things like the Etape and yet the winner was half an hour behind the slowest TDF rider on that stage. |
Interesting, I've heard about this comparison before; has the Etape winner ever finished faster than any of the professionals? |
The difference in conditions between the Etape and the tour make such comparisons a waste of time. For example the tour, one peleton working, on the whole, together. The Etape, several thousand individuals, on the whole, getting in each others way.
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Roy Gardiner
T de F Winner
Joined: 14 Jul 2003
Posts: 21249
Location: London and Essex
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| Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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| troy spartan wrote: |
| Roy Gardiner wrote: |
| De Rosa wrote: |
| We go on and on about things like the Etape and yet the winner was half an hour behind the slowest TDF rider on that stage. |
Interesting, I've heard about this comparison before; has the Etape winner ever finished faster than any of the professionals? |
The difference in conditions between the Etape and the tour make such comparisons a waste of time. For example the tour, one peleton working, on the whole, together. The Etape, several thousand individuals, on the whole, getting in each others way. |
I've never ridden it. I was given to believe that it's 'seeded', as Kimmage kinda reported, with the fast boys to the front and largely working together. But if it's not so, fair enough.
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Pierre Head
Div 1 Pro
Joined: 06 Apr 2005
Posts: 7839
Location: Albert Dock
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| Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 5:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Le Rolleur wrote: |
I am amazed that Millar has prepared himself to get through all the mountain stages just from training in the UK countryside! So yes, very impressed. Hopefully he can build on it for the Vuelta.
Wiggins... first tour, doing pretty well. Still got a lot of maturing to do as a road rider so impressed by him also.
I think we should be amazed that any of our domestic racers reach TDF level at all when you consider how hard it is to get in a continental pro tour team. |
Don't talk trash. Do you think DM just did a bit tootling round the Pennines?
He's been training with his SD teammates doing 6 hours a day, like everone else in the TDF.
Naive or what?
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troy spartan
E, Gold
Joined: 04 Apr 2004
Posts: 2605
Location: peoples republic of south yorkshire
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| Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Roy Gardiner wrote: |
| troy spartan wrote: |
| Roy Gardiner wrote: |
| De Rosa wrote: |
| We go on and on about things like the Etape and yet the winner was half an hour behind the slowest TDF rider on that stage. |
Interesting, I've heard about this comparison before; has the Etape winner ever finished faster than any of the professionals? |
The difference in conditions between the Etape and the tour make such comparisons a waste of time. For example the tour, one peleton working, on the whole, together. The Etape, several thousand individuals, on the whole, getting in each others way. |
I've never ridden it. I was given to believe that it's 'seeded', as Kimmage kinda reported, with the fast boys to the front and largely working together. But if it's not so, fair enough. |
But the road is only so wide and above a certain number more is not better. Don't forget the peleton know what they are doing and you'll know from racing most club cyclist don't. Organising such a large group in to a smooth working bunch is impossible. And given the distances involved in the Etape 30mins is nowt. some will lose a load of time just getting out of the start area.
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De Rosa
World Champ
Joined: 04 Dec 2002
Posts: 10485
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| Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Coming out of the start area wasted no more than 10 mins and I was number 3003. The tour riders are in a totally different class from anyone on the Etape. |
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Billy Boy
T de F Winner
Joined: 11 Aug 2003
Posts: 30726
Location: Not Aylesbury
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| Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 6:15 pm Post subject: |
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| troy spartan wrote: |
| Roy Gardiner wrote: |
| troy spartan wrote: |
| Roy Gardiner wrote: |
| De Rosa wrote: |
| We go on and on about things like the Etape and yet the winner was half an hour behind the slowest TDF rider on that stage. |
Interesting, I've heard about this comparison before; has the Etape winner ever finished faster than any of the professionals? |
The difference in conditions between the Etape and the tour make such comparisons a waste of time. For example the tour, one peleton working, on the whole, together. The Etape, several thousand individuals, on the whole, getting in each others way. |
I've never ridden it. I was given to believe that it's 'seeded', as Kimmage kinda reported, with the fast boys to the front and largely working together. But if it's not so, fair enough. |
But the road is only so wide and above a certain number more is not better. Don't forget the peleton know what they are doing and you'll know from racing most club cyclist don't. Organising such a large group in to a smooth working bunch is impossible. And given the distances involved in the Etape 30mins is nowt. some will lose a load of time just getting out of the start area. |
Don't forget that half the peloton is dying on it's assos, whereas etape riders should be as fresh as a daisy.
Anyway, I'm proud of them, especially because they are British. What's wrong with being patriotic?
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Tony Bell
T de F Winner
Joined: 06 Aug 2003
Posts: 25203
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| Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 6:23 pm Post subject: |
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David Millar has done a fantastic ride in the Tour, given the circumstances of the past two years. I'm hoping he will build on the last three weeks, turn out some good rides later in the season, and then begin to focus on next year and beyond.
It's just a shame that some individuals in our sport can't move on and stop treating him as if he was a serial killer, rather than a guy who made the same mistake that many of his fellow pros have made.
Oh, and Bradley has done well in his first Tour as well.  |
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troy spartan
E, Gold
Joined: 04 Apr 2004
Posts: 2605
Location: peoples republic of south yorkshire
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| Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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| De Rosa wrote: |
| Coming out of the start area wasted no more than 10 mins and I was number 3003. The tour riders are in a totally different class from anyone on the Etape. |
I never said they weren't  .
I just said it was a crap comparison, which it is. I know plenty of lads who've gone and done the Etape and all without fail have said they were held up by the sheer number of riders in their way. Particularly on the climbs and more over on the descents. This isn't a criticism just a fact.
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Fun whilst it lasted.
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De Rosa
World Champ
Joined: 04 Dec 2002
Posts: 10485
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| Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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| troy spartan wrote: |
| De Rosa wrote: |
| Coming out of the start area wasted no more than 10 mins and I was number 3003. The tour riders are in a totally different class from anyone on the Etape. |
I never said they weren't .
I just said it was a crap comparison, which it is. I know plenty of lads who've gone and done the Etape and all without fail have said they were held up by the sheer number of riders in their way. Particularly on the climbs and more over on the descents. This isn't a criticism just a fact. |
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Le Rolleur
E, Bronze
Joined: 22 Feb 2006
Posts: 392
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| Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 8:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Tony Bell wrote: |
It's just a shame that some individuals in our sport can't move on and stop treating him as if he was a serial killer, rather than a guy who made the same mistake that many of his fellow pros have made.
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:script:
I'd even go as far as changing many to 'most' or 'all' if we believe Willy Voet and Paul Kimmage.
While I don't condone illegal *CENSORED* use and doping, the people that go on about how *CENSORED* and isolated it is have their head buried in the sand.
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