UCI World Championships, Track, TT and Road. Great results!

[david123]

[Plurien]

Well I posted this

[Hans Datdodishes]

[Plurien]

You're wrong on the facts in so many ways you don't understand and have no intention of ever doing anything about anything to set it right - except moaning, Hans. You style yourself to be in a spade shop which somehow means you can't stand other people to be right about something so you have to revert to plain old ad hominem or hiding in your kind of patriotism as if this will progress anything at all related to the topic under discussion.
- Short enough for you? As if I care.

Since you construed the thread to be about Eastway, I don't think I've seen you at any meeting to do with the place, Tim, and as I recall when you were called out on that you said you live too far away to be bothered about visiting any of the sites on any kind of regular basis.
If I can be 'accused' of having an agenda I can ask: What's yours and why is it necessary for you to pursue it independently of any factual basis?
Justify or go take it out on something else.

[Hans Datdodishes]

[Witherwind]

Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 5:37 am.

What on earth were you doing up at this time of the morning?!

[Hans Datdodishes]

[KJ]

[Hans Datdodishes]

[JohnC]

Hans - you've done naff all. We lobbied hard for the replacement, to change it when Rammey Marsh was endorsed by BC, run the races at Ford, run the first races at Hog Hill and still lobbying to change the Legacy, having coughed up the money for £100+ an hour special-ist legal fees, at a time when BC did not want to object to the legacy.

The sound case that we presented by special-ist planning lawyers with Olympics experience forced a change in BC's position - they then had to object formally.

Thank God for cycle crazy committed people like us, who give up substantial amounts of time and money to ensure the future for young bikers.

I sponsor a cycle team, so I know to expect nothing in return - post your silly emails Hans, you are not even well enough briefed to do anything more than repeat inaccuracies that have been comprehensively rebutted before.

Gotta go - it's Tuesday so it must be Hillingdon.

[Tucker]

£100 per hour lawyers? Buy cheap, buy twice...

[Hans Datdodishes]

[nettie biker]

[Plurien]

There was no balls-up on the side of the users.
It wasn't bc - it was someone in another cycling organisation all together - that got the use of Dunton. BC came in on that and welcome.
It was me that signed the agreement of 19 May 2006 to get the temporary circuit at Docklands after cross-examination of Seb Coe in the planning inquiry. It was users that got the right to a relocation to Hog Hill instead of Rammey Marsh, as decided in a public consultation re-opened by the users and agreed in the undertaking given by LDA. Further it was EUG which set in train the politicking to get the LDA to commit to actually opening Hog Hill this Spring.

You'll have to look up others' smalls for the balls. One mighty one was the support lent by BC to the totally inappropriate and completely stupid easy-fix solution for a relocation to Rammey Marsh on land which wasn't even owned by the people you were told held it. We also found it to be one of the heaviest polluted sites around, on a dangerous and smoggy site where you can't hear your own rasping breath.
- Read comments on the concerns for our athletes in Beijing and marvel that Rammey could ever have come into consideration.

Remember you can apply for planning permission on any patch of land, irrespective of ownership. Getting approved schemes built is another matter entirely, which was another reason to prefer the Hog Hill site where we had carefully qualified the tenant and the freeholder, as well as the local authority.
Oh yes, it was the users that did that too. And it was the users which secured the first principle of a right to relocation where previously a scheme might have been agreed which included no interim provision for road and off-road. This was all argued in open meetings with the developer and in the face of BCs opposition to just about any idea from users.

Putting up with the facts and shutting up about the lies is probably the best thing you could do Hans if you want to stop BC being kicked for things it did wrong. Users stopped doing that a while ago and only bring it up when the history is in danger of being sanitised. That BC can do things right now is only a result of the battles it lost and the changes it's made since. They moved on. So did we. Time for you to do the same now?
________________________

BTW, if you are committed to doing something for your sport, and if you think that Rammey is so good as a site, you can obtain permission from the Lee Valley Park for access to its part of the site at Rammey Marsh.

We can help by putting you in contact with a very active group of concerned local residents who will be able to tell you in great detail some of what went into the landfill there. They would greatly welcome the establishment of any youth amenity in an area where even a hall for meetings cannot be found. There's no school, no GP no dentist yet there are regular applications for hundreds more houses on the site at Enfield Lock. Despite their urgent and very pressing need for youth animation and activities, the residents were not able to support any application for any kind of recreational activity on Rammey that would potentially bring their children into contact with any of the earth on the site. Many councillors agreed too.
- Any local knowledge you may have about the site could be as cursory as those who thunder past it so close on the M25.

Of course, Hans, you would be most welcome as far as I'm concerned to take all your training off-road on the site exactly as it is now, but why not do an EUG thing and go the extra mile...
You could get a clean-up of the site according to the regulated means which was estimated at several million cubic meters of earth being removed and more being imported after the laying of an impermeable membrane. The uncertainties of this alone meant the relocation would have eventually been doomed, but conveniently this could have been 'discovered' after the commitment was made. Oh yes, there were few awkward questions about that because it seemed we were the only ones in our sport willing to ask.

So let's have a look at what you could have won, Hans.
You made no judgement, you lost nothing, yet you sit on the sidelines and cast a jaundiced eye over the work that's been done, assuming that only good can come from your NGB and that only bad comes from people who you didn't know because you weren't a regular at Eastway since when exactly?
Wise up.
And don't get me started on the legacy, because that's looking like it's coming good after a very long time when various dastardly schemes and unsuitable palliatives were being foist on users by....

If you can't do that for yourself you're probably best off staying away from Hog Hill as the shock of seeing how good a cycle facility can be might not be good for your world-view when you realise that without the users' assertions and actions there would be no facility anywhere at all, or a thing on Rammey that nobody - apart from you - actually would ever have used. Without some of BC it probably would have been about the same, only a bit quicker in coming. Without the newts we'd be riding there now (har har)!

Our agenda - to secure facilities to replace Eastway during and after the Games without any being lost in the meantime.
- On mission and on time, bar a few shenanigans that we only allowed to lead to delays.

Sorry this was a long one, but the really inconvenient thing about facts is that they have to be set out and explained. If you think you've heard all this before, well so should Hans have remembered it. Then there would have been no need to set it all off again.
______________________

So, back to the topic which is actually about getting riders to major events where they can develop as individuals within a squad.

[Hans Datdodishes]

[JohnC]

Note how Hans declines to enter into any reasoning for his accusations. It's easy to write just a couple of lines repeating yourself without evidence or analysis.

Yes, we do run a successful team and the successful company that sponsors it, plus do stuff like this for cycling. You need the same approach for something like getting a good replacemernt for Eastway - act, react, keep a focus and don't be put off.

Contrast what we have actually DONE with Hans's lazy contribution to this debate. You'll have to do better Hans. I'll think of you next time I'm driving past Junc 25 on the M25, look over and imagine you riding round at Rammy Marsh. It'll bring a smile to my face.

[Hans Datdodishes]

[Plurien]

And when you're riding round Hog Hill - as anyone's free to do shortly - just think how it really came about and try to imagine what there would be for you to enjoy without the users' achievements by comparison with what any other organisation had prior agreement to accept.
Won't it be marvellous for you to have the opportunity to invite people along to a facility. You'll appreciate the benefit of having such a place just the same as those who actually did stuff to get it.
And we don't care: Just don't think the things will always stay the same and remember that 'your sport' is also 'our sport'.

[KJ]

[dockeca]

rarely does one read such bitterness, you would think that we all were not in the same sport, and most of us trying just to do our best.
Drop it, guys, what's done is over, and get on with the racing.
Want to do politics, then get elected to the board. The purpose of which, for any candodate, should be to do some good fro the sport and not chuck blame about.
If you want to see what bitterness and pig-headedness can do, look back to the 50's NCU/BLRC fight, and what problems it has brought the sport, even through to today (TLI, etc.). The old British tradition of "I don't like your rules so I'm taking my ball away and making up rules of my own", instead of getting changes from the inside and making contributions.
That sort of nonsense should never happen again.
_________________
Doc

"Any views expressed are entirely my own and not representative of any organisation of which I may or may not be a member. Unless I say otherwise."
"A Libertarian Crackpot" H.Peel