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Ricco 'Banned for Life'?
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Should Ricco be 'Banned for Life'?
YES
53%
 53%  [ 53 ]
NO
46%
 46%  [ 46 ]
Total Votes : 99

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gswarbrick
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Turismo wrote:
gswarbrick wrote:
throwing out whole teams when when rider fails a test, to be consistent with the ban on a team that shares nothing but a sponsor with a team that had *CENSORED* problems in the past...

I assume this is in reference to Astana. Did you know that of their squad of thirty riders, seventeen were part of last year's "dirty" Astana? And hey, the team ownership has stayed the same too. And last year they made the exact same argument before bringing massive controversy to the Tour for the second year running.


OK, let's take that as a starting point. Now tell me why the 'tough on *CENSORED*, tough on the causes of *CENSORED*' ASO decided not to mess up its flagship race part way through by throwing teams out this year?
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mho
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gswarbrick wrote:
Turismo wrote:
gswarbrick wrote:
throwing out whole teams when when rider fails a test, to be consistent with the ban on a team that shares nothing but a sponsor with a team that had *CENSORED* problems in the past...

I assume this is in reference to Astana. Did you know that of their squad of thirty riders, seventeen were part of last year's "dirty" Astana? And hey, the team ownership has stayed the same too. And last year they made the exact same argument before bringing massive controversy to the Tour for the second year running.


OK, let's take that as a starting point. Now tell me why the 'tough on *CENSORED*, tough on the causes of *CENSORED*' ASO decided not to mess up its flagship race part way through by throwing teams out this year?


Well I guess the fact one was French might be a clue.... Wink
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Eeyore
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Billynobrakes wrote:
When he broke the rules, the rules stated he would get a 2 year ban, therefore he should get a two year ban, simple innit?
Yes, you are perfectly correct there.

Surely the question should be - 'should the rule be changed to allow for life bans to be imposed?'

Yes, you are correct again here. You are looking at it sensibly, in the cold light of day.
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Dogma Dave
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 8:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eeyore wrote:
Billynobrakes wrote:
When he broke the rules, the rules stated he would get a 2 year ban, therefore he should get a two year ban, simple innit?
Yes, you are perfectly correct there.

Surely the question should be - 'should the rule be changed to allow for life bans to be imposed?'

Yes, you are correct again here. You are looking at it sensibly, in the cold light of day.

Been quite warm here today. And light does not have a temperature per se.
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gswarbrick
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dogma Dave wrote:
light does not have a temperature per se.


Yes it does. Even measured in Kelvin...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_temperature
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climbingwizzkid
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Ricco 'Banned for Life'? Reply with quote

Hans Datdodishes wrote:
Iain Bonsall wrote:
Lee wrote:
karlos wrote:
should he be the first to be 'Banned for Life' ?
cast your vote in this 7 day poll


Why, what has he done that is so much worse than anyoine else that is caught? And at least he's had the ball to fess up unlike most of the snivelling Evil or Very Mad.

Funny we all applaud Millar for doing the same and despite him not being a patch on his former self since his comeback stil believe he only took it when he said. However Ricco must be lying and should be banned for life???


I don't, shouldn't have done it in the first bloody place Mad


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primalcarl
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This was a guy who was arrogant, cocky and outspoken. Confident he could beat the system and beat the Tour. Why shouldn't he get a life ban? We don't need people like him in the sport
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shortly
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guess it has to be the 2 year ban by the rules.....but dont know about anyone else....I'm getting sick and tired of the guilty holding their hands up and sayiny sorry...I shouldnt have done....it was a mistake....etc etc. The sport dosnt want/need them. Best off without em !. Inc. past GB riders !!
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Megman
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 8:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Billynobrakes wrote:
When he broke the rules, the rules stated he would get a 2 year ban, therefore he should get a two year ban, simple innit?

Surely the question should be - 'should the rule be changed to allow for life bans to be imposed?'
There are life bans. 3rd offence is a life ban.
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Lee
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

primalcarl wrote:
This was a guy who was arrogant, cocky and outspoken. Confident he could beat the system and beat the Tour. Why shouldn't he get a life ban? We don't need people like him in the sport


So somebody's personality should influence the length of the ban?
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benlane
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lee wrote:
primalcarl wrote:
This was a guy who was arrogant, cocky and outspoken. Confident he could beat the system and beat the Tour. Why shouldn't he get a life ban? We don't need people like him in the sport


So somebody's personality should influence the length of the ban?


Good point Lee.

I would argue that if he was a clean athlete, he is just what the sport needs, someone a little contraversial who will shake things up.

Obviously, he is not clean so should serve his time as per the current legislation.
My personal viewpoint is get caught d oping once and your out for good, but as that is not an option at the moment.
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Billynobrakes
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Megman wrote:
Billynobrakes wrote:
When he broke the rules, the rules stated he would get a 2 year ban, therefore he should get a two year ban, simple innit?

Surely the question should be - 'should the rule be changed to allow for life bans to be imposed?'
There are life bans. 3rd offence is a life ban.


But this wasn't a third offence.

Didn't you read - he's never taken the stuff before - he was just a bit tired and needed something to perk him up for the Tour Rolling Eyes

My point was that as the rules stand there is no debate over what his ban should be, it's pretty clearly stated that he'll be banned for two years.

However, given the currently climate and the drive to clean up the sport I think there's a good arguement to change the rules to zero tollerance and life bans in clear cut cases of blatent cheating like this one - doesn't change the Ricco situation though, he broke the rules and should be punished under the rules as they stood at that time, like I said, simple innit!
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Turismo
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gswarbrick wrote:
Turismo wrote:
gswarbrick wrote:
throwing out whole teams when when rider fails a test, to be consistent with the ban on a team that shares nothing but a sponsor with a team that had *CENSORED* problems in the past...

I assume this is in reference to Astana. Did you know that of their squad of thirty riders, seventeen were part of last year's "dirty" Astana? And hey, the team ownership has stayed the same too. And last year they made the exact same argument before bringing massive controversy to the Tour for the second year running.


OK, let's take that as a starting point. Now tell me why the 'tough on *CENSORED*, tough on the causes of *CENSORED*' ASO decided not to mess up its flagship race part way through by throwing teams out this year?


Possibly because they dropped that part of the contract to provide slightly more allure to teams who'd be going against the UCI by riding? But I don't know. I don't speak for ASO.

Also, I'm not sure why you've suddenly deemed that the "starting point" in a thread that it has precisely nothing to do with. Was it just a way of making your own admission that Astana may not be the squeaky-clean, brand new team they're pretending to be?
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Megman
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Billynobrakes wrote:
Megman wrote:
Billynobrakes wrote:
When he broke the rules, the rules stated he would get a 2 year ban, therefore he should get a two year ban, simple innit?

Surely the question should be - 'should the rule be changed to allow for life bans to be imposed?'
There are life bans. 3rd offence is a life ban.


But this wasn't a third offence.

Didn't you read - he's never taken the stuff before - he was just a bit tired and needed something to perk him up for the Tour Rolling Eyes
I did read, but your question was 'should the rule be changed to allow for life bans to be imposed?'

They are allowed and you never specified 'for a first offence'
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gswarbrick
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Turismo wrote:
I'm not sure why you've suddenly deemed that the "starting point" in a thread that it has precisely nothing to do with.


It does have something to do with it. Although...

Turismo wrote:
Was it just a way of making your own admission that Astana may not be the squeaky-clean, brand new team they're pretending to be?


...it doesn't matter what your view is on Astana's present structure; the ASO's inconsistency points to an agenda that has nothing at all to do with cleaning up the sport and everything to do with removing any UCI influence over its events.

No matter what people think of the UCI, a commercial organisation breaking away from the sport's governing body in order to run its events to its commercial agenda is not going to end well...
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karlos
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

if the riders don't play by the rules why should the race's governing bodies? whats to stop them 'the rule makers' saying 'ok we've had enough, obviously you think we're a soft touch so we're gonna ban you for life, how'd you like that?'. who's gonna stop em? if the ban gets over-ruled after being dragged for 2 years thru some euro-kangaroo court, ASO could then just not invite the riders team to the tour. saying 'you can't change the rules after the event' is utter hogwash, who says you can't? and also saying that 'its as simple as that', er no it isn't sherlock or else we wouldn't be debating it here.
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gswarbrick
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

karlos wrote:
whats to stop them 'the rule makers' saying 'ok we've had enough, obviously you think we're a soft touch so we're gonna ban you for life, how'd you like that?'. who's gonna stop em?


The Court for Arbitration in Sport can stop them and if anyone had the will to pursue it, it could overturn the ASO's refusals to invite teams...
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Lee
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

karlos wrote:
if the riders don't play by the rules why should the race's governing bodies? whats to stop them 'the rule makers' saying 'ok we've had enough, obviously you think we're a soft touch so we're gonna ban you for life, how'd you like that?'. who's gonna stop em? if the ban gets over-ruled after being dragged for 2 years thru some euro-kangaroo court, ASO could then just not invite the riders team to the tour. saying 'you can't change the rules after the event' is utter hogwash, who says you can't? and also saying that 'its as simple as that', er no it isn't sherlock or else we wouldn't be debating it here.


Karlos, you arn't one of life's great thinkers are you....... Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes
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karlos
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

haha more of a little shlt-stirrer. i've an IQ as good as any US president i'll have you know.
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karlos
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lee wrote:
Karlos, you arn't one of life's great thinkers are you....... Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes


Hey Socrates, even rhetorical questions need question marks. Guess your not one of life's great spellers Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes touché
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