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Are BCF Points Important?

 
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Are BCF Points Important?
Yes
50%
 50%  [ 7 ]
No
35%
 35%  [ 5 ]
Don't know
14%
 14%  [ 2 ]
We should have a new system, see my comments
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Total Votes : 14

Author Message
Gary K
Div 1 Pro


Joined: 27 Feb 2002
Posts: 7115
Location: Toowoomba, Queensland, in Sunny Australia!!!

PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2002 6:09 pm    Post subject: Are BCF Points Important? Reply with quote

Someone called Paul just asked me the same on the Army CU website message board, so I thought I'd seek a general opinion from you lot of knowledgeable people.

The question originated when I posted the pro's and con's of doing a TLI race (at Thruxton this Sun 17th 1200 start). "The Pro is that you do not have to join the BCF to get a race, the Con is that you don't get licence points", was my comments to the Army CU members.

Answer the poll please and let's have your opinions and comments

My opinion is that I support the current system, albeit that it is not ideal, but it works for the vast majority of riders. I know from promoting races at Eelmore that riders ride for points, especially newer riders who want to get their 3rd and 2nd cats. It is also a way of comparing yourself against others. Again, there is room for anomolies, like those that grab "easy" points in crits and winter series races and the like. That is soon sorted out though, when they enter a real race and find the going quite a bit different.
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Liam C
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Joined: 05 Mar 2002
Posts: 893
Location: where I am at now

PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2002 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

so there's two bodies who award points and two different point systems ?

or

are high points awarded to easier races early in the season ?

sorry...have'nt raced yet

brain..overheating Very Happy

I'm confused
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MalCog
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2002 11:28 am    Post subject: BCF points Reply with quote

For me, BCF points are meaningless as I only ride LVRC and TTs.
In general BCF points are a means of getting to ride with better riders, and improving oneself, so for aspiring riders BCF points are useful;
they are a vague measure of success and ability. Wink
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Liam C
E, Silver


Joined: 05 Mar 2002
Posts: 893
Location: where I am at now

PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2002 9:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi people,

I hope i haven't offended or annoyed anyone on here.

I dont think any of you are spouting off and i enjoy reading the posts, gives me alot more insight.

whenever i usually post..threads stop and most questions i leave remain unanswered..except the odd couple.

I know I dont race and my knowledge/ experience is poo, cos i have just got into cycling...im getting as much help as i can get cos i am a late starter. I hope this isn't a factor, but i do want to learn more and fit into the *CENSORED* more.
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Larry Hickmott
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Joined: 02 Mar 2002
Posts: 1460
Location: Shakespear's Country

PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2002 10:24 am    Post subject: Category Systems... Reply with quote

I will on the British Cycling Federation website be explaining more about the category system that it has. I can't speak about the other organisations.

As a new rider then, what things do you want to know and as content editor, I will try and incorporate those in the British Cycling site.

Larry Hickmott
with official hat on ...
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2002 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cheers Larry,

I appreciate your message.

Well for me mainly it is the general riding skills ( which I am working on after some great advice..you know who you are Very Happy ) Finding a training partner..as i do think I need regular contact with someone an active racer who i can go on the roads with and learn and build my confidence but obviously thats difficult to find cos they have their own schedule. And i need to work on my base fitness...which again has just started cos of some damn good advice.

I think the learn more section on the right of BC's site doesn't stand out enough and should be under the main info on the left...so the information carries down on one linear side.

Obvoisly the message board is going to really open things up. But a online Q&A section is needed so at least other newbies can see the answers too, without having to go to a club. This would also reduce the amounts of e-mails flooding into the BC.

Perhaps even a board too where people can post if they need a training partner or someone who is a kinda first contact for the roads. This would be less intimidating...so even people who are a bit interested can get a taster before throwing themselves in. But alot of people may not want to do this.

Or a humourous board/dictionary to all the jargon used.

The WCPP section needs laying out more, more information on how old you need to be to qualify...how old you are if you cant qualify....the races you would need to do in that calendar season..points. Even postings from riders in the wcpp would be cool as at least then we know how they guys and girls we are supporting are doing...perhaps a contact section..obviously montitored. So we can see/ask how they did it.

would inspire alot of people too.

The useful liks needs to be induvidual...sometimes if theres too many sections to go though people might not bother.

dont get me wrong..it is a gazzilion times better than it was and i appreciate you wanting to help as well as help the site.
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Liam C
E, Silver


Joined: 05 Mar 2002
Posts: 893
Location: where I am at now

PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2002 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sorry..keep getting logged out...that as me above.

cheers
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Larry Hickmott
E, Silver


Joined: 02 Mar 2002
Posts: 1460
Location: Shakespear's Country

PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2002 12:00 pm    Post subject: Thanks .. any more welcome Reply with quote

I have kept a note of your points. I think the disciplines section stands out because you can't help but miss the images but I see the point. The left menu may change later and I'll see what the IT guy at BC says about moving it.

The message board will be useful I agree and I'll know more in April I hope.

A glossary is coming -- perhaps tomorrow. I have a lot of material from the past but have to go through it.

WCPP -- agree -- needs work and that is a goal of mine...

Usful links --- lost me... what useful links...

thanks
Larry
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Liam C
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Joined: 05 Mar 2002
Posts: 893
Location: where I am at now

PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2002 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cheers dude,

sorry...slough lingo and Evil or Very Mad typing coming out Very Happy

I meant the useful links in communication should be a link on it's own, so you can see it straight away.

thanks

Liam
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2002 6:15 pm    Post subject: Points for Prizes? Reply with quote

The points system means little for me as a 1st cat! As I rode the same races last year as a 2nd cat (Bar four 2nd cat races! 3 of which were on the cusp of moving up a category)
Although I can see the challenges/reward that there is to achieving a higher cat.
At the top (UK) level it is good to see how many wins a rider has! How about a ratio of wins (Or points) to races ridden? - an idea??

Those who race more ("Points Grabbers events!") throughout the season as I have heard them been called; achieve large amounts of points - but then they race more!! - So? They love racing? or points for prizes from sponsors or whatever?

There is no linear evaluation to put a value on "Lesser" or winter season races that can apply to a points system!
Considerations in points allocations are numerous for example - Greater number of riders, longer race, poor weather, International field? Harder race - (How do you value this!) One of the hardest races I have done was 45 mins plus 5 laps on a sunny July evening in Surrey! - much easier than riding 80 miles in a bunch then racing for the last 20 miles with a sprint up a hill every 10 miles each lap!)

I however do feel that those riders doing MORE races and gaining greater number of points are a valid asset to their teams and SPONSORS, as they obviously get the points and the exposure for their sponsors!!
To eradicate disparities with all year round racers and the seasoners could we submit our results for our best 10/20/30 races a year? Or is this a problem at all? If you want the points? Ride the races!
Afterall UCI is what motivates the Professional Peleton! - Look at Gordo et al hunting UCI points for team contracts!
Personally, I was told I could claim some BC points for some races I did in Italy last summer! I didn't bother! Why? It made no difference to me! I'd still be doing the same races as a 1st cat or and Elite! (ALthough my old club paid the licence fees for their Elite riders! - a bit of a motivation?!?)

What is better 1 win or 3 fifth places?? View this in terms of pleasure or points or do you see it as an evaluation or a ranking of a rider? So 3 wins in 3 races or a season of top 20 places? Who is better and why is it a ranking?

Personally I love the winning not the racking up of points! Although a universal points system is a nice gauge to work on!

So, as usual...more questions than answers! In conclusion, what do other countries do? or other sports?
Belgium...it's all in (you win! You get sat on next week and go home with some cash, a rug or a sack of potatoes! Italy it is "Delatanti" (Under 26 - I wanna be a pro catagory - you win you make it!) or Amaturi (Over 26! - you win, you impress the podium girls!)
France has changed since I was there, but I know they use an Espoir cat. and various divisions for teams!
Looking at other sports! - There are very little other sports to adapt a ranking system! For example where else can you race against 70/80 other riders (A full field in the UK) or last week here in Italy I raced with 2500 starters! Over the same course at the same time- Tennis is 1 on 1, Motor racing is 22 in a race (Or so!)

I hope people see what I mean! It is a very subjective topic! What does it matter anyway? We all want to win one day! At least!
Ross C


PS has anyone actually read this far?
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Larry Hickmott
E, Silver


Joined: 02 Mar 2002
Posts: 1460
Location: Shakespear's Country

PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2002 6:25 pm    Post subject: Ross........ Reply with quote

I did .. so when you gonna send me an article about racing in Italy?

Larry
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Ross
Guest





PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2002 6:38 pm    Post subject: When Reply with quote

Ill send one when Martina Colombari is a podium girl!

I think she must rule Italy at the moment! In fact secretly forget the mafia and the italian parliment! - Blonde haired chicks do rule the country!

Hey...when i have something interesting / amusing / pictures etc etc I'll wizz a few words over to the Larry hotdesk!

RC

PS oh! Can't say online! - E-mail me!
rosscolson@zoom.co.uk
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Matt M
Cat 1 Groupie
Cat 1 Groupie


Joined: 13 Mar 2002
Posts: 177
Location: Newbury, Berkshire

PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2002 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hey sorry to be really boring and go back to the original question but I reckon that BCF points are a reasonable means of distinguishing stronger riders from weaker riders and ensure everybody can race in a category of race where they can be competitive. isn't that what every cyclist ultimately wants?

performance-related points are a pretty logical way to score riders, and although there may be quirks in the system they basically do their job of allocating riders into performance-related categories.

if there were no points or categories we would have a similar situation to Belgium where all races are simply 'Open' and beginners and weekend racers have to rub shoulders with semi-pros. hardly ideal... especially in the UK where cycling isn't a very accessible sport at the best of times?

in France the allocation of ranking points reflect not just the category of the race but also the number of starters. it's a bit of a complicated formula but all the details are on http://www.ffc.fr
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