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Do you believe him?
Yes
75%
 75%  [ 103 ]
No
24%
 24%  [ 33 ]
Total Votes : 136

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Dogma Dave
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PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tucker wrote:
Dogma Dave wrote:
Tucker wrote:
TBK wrote:
mattr wrote:
TBK wrote:
he has given lots of cancer sufferers hope that can never be taken away from him,
Unless he gets busted and turns out to be a two faced lying cheat.


True, in terms of his sporting achievements, but then the surviving the cancer he had when he was give a less than 40% survival chance was the thing that gave people hope.

I along with topskull think he a twat with his pontification re drugs though.


Beating 5:2 odds? ITS A MIRACLE!

That'll be 3:2 odds then.


His chances were 11.4285% less than 40%.

Fair enough. I stand corrected Rolling Eyes
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special guest star
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PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scalatore wrote:
Okay, it's Kimmage, but, well...

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/columnists/paul_kimmage/article4322625.ece

I wonder how he's feeling this morning, betrayed?

Quote:
“Where were you when you heard about the positive test?” I ask.

“I was back home in Boulder.” “How did you hear of it?” “Just like everyone else.” “A news report?” “Yeah.” “What did you think?” “I was totally floored: I was like, ‘Wow! Are you kidding me?’”

(Long pause.) “Go on,” I urge, “keep going. You say you were floored.” “Yeah, I was very surprised.”

“Is that all?” “Yeah, I mean I felt . . . eh . . . I was just very surprised, because it was totally unexpected. It would be the last thing I could ever dream of.”


Landis's ride THAT DAY was still an incredible exploit regardless of whatever else happened.


Yeah - but applauding the doctors gets dull after a while
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special guest star
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PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dogma Dave wrote:
Tucker wrote:
Dogma Dave wrote:
Tucker wrote:
TBK wrote:
mattr wrote:
TBK wrote:
he has given lots of cancer sufferers hope that can never be taken away from him,
Unless he gets busted and turns out to be a two faced lying cheat.


True, in terms of his sporting achievements, but then the surviving the cancer he had when he was give a less than 40% survival chance was the thing that gave people hope.

I along with topskull think he a twat with his pontification re drugs though.


Beating 5:2 odds? ITS A MIRACLE!

That'll be 3:2 odds then.


His chances were 11.4285% less than 40%.

Fair enough. I stand corrected Rolling Eyes


you can sit down now.
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Scalatore
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PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

special guest star wrote:
Yeah - but applauding the doctors gets dull after a while


"You join us now from the Crucible Theatre, Sheffield General Hospital, for gall stone treatment, second round knockout."
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Sausages
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PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

how long until Lemond responds?
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Matteo
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PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Salsiccia wrote:
I believe him, but who cares? We've all got to the point where we know he was on it, suspect just about everyone else is or has been on it, and ignore that and just enjoy the racing.


I care, because some have been disgraced and shamed (Landis, Hamilton, Rasmussen, Ullrich, Heras, Vino, Ricco etc) whereas others (Armstrong, Hincapie etc) have not and continue along as if they've never done wrong. That's not fair.
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KJ
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PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Life isn't fair gentlemen.
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mattr
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PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KJ wrote:
Life isn't fair gentlemen.
Thats what teh rulez are there for.
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Tucker
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PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matteo wrote:
Salsiccia wrote:
I believe him, but who cares? We've all got to the point where we know he was on it, suspect just about everyone else is or has been on it, and ignore that and just enjoy the racing.


I care, because some have been disgraced and shamed (Landis, Hamilton, Rasmussen, Ullrich, Heras, Vino, Ricco etc) whereas others (Armstrong, Hincapie etc) have not and continue along as if they've never done wrong. That's not fair.


Ah well. Dry those eyes.
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Incomplete Pete
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PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unless I've missed something, why is there such 'certainty' that people like Armstrong and Hincapie have doped?

Or is it just general cynicism that to succeed in pro cycling you have to dope?


Last edited by Incomplete Pete on Thu May 20, 2010 1:49 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Mr.B
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PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

...slightly off-topic, but isn't it 'odd' how a load of riders from astana and bmc (note Landis alleges rhis paid for a doping programe) all get ill and leave the giro just as this was about to break...funny old world. all these coincidences... Rolling Eyes
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KJ
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PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mattr wrote:
KJ wrote:
Life isn't fair gentlemen.
Thats what teh *CENSORED* are there for.


Que?
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mattr
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PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KJ wrote:
mattr wrote:
KJ wrote:
Life isn't fair gentlemen.
Thats what teh *CENSORED* are there for.


Que?
r u l e z
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Odge
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PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Incomplete Pete wrote:
Unless I've missed something, why is there such 'certainty' that people like Armstrong and Hincapie have doped?

Or is it just general cynicism that to succeed in pro cycling you have to dope?


read this http://nyvelocity.com/content/interviews/2009/michael-ashenden and then look at the amount of LA's team-mates who've admitted to dr*g taking or have been busted for dr*gs:
Andreu
Landis
Hamilton
Heras
Manuel Beltran

and hasn't one of his Radioshack team been done for dr*gs this season too? edit: http://tinyurl.com/3yevrhb
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Tucker
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PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Incomplete Pete wrote:
Unless I've missed something, why is there such 'certainty' that people like Armstrong and Hincapie have doped?

Or is it just general cynicism that to succeed in pro cycling you have to dope?


There is, as I understand it, watertight evidence that Lance d0ped. Unfortunately the legal procedures were not followed, thus the evidence is inadmissable in court.

Howard Peel may be along shortly to C&P his treatise on the topic.
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Odge
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PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tucker wrote:
There is, as I understand it, watertight evidence that Lance d0ped. Unfortunately the legal procedures were not followed, thus the evidence is inadmissable in court.

Howard Peel may be along shortly to C&P his treatise on the topic.


Read the Michael Ashenden piece I linked to - that's the one where he says Lance's pee had EPO in it but because there was no B sample to test he can't be proven via the legal procedures in place. This is why (I think) Lance isn't going to sue Landis. Landis (and others) will know that there are still samples of Lance's from that Tour and if he goes to court they will ask for those samples to be re-tested. At the moment, the only person who can allow re-tests of the samples is Lance who understandably is saying no.
I suspect Lance/Johan will degrade Landis as a looney tune and say that the onus on proving guilt rests on Landis, rather than Lance proving his innoncence.
Like I said earlier, Landis needs "evidence" rather than Anne Frank-style diaries
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Steve McGinty
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PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Odge wrote:

I suspect Lance/Johan will degrade Landis as a looney tune and say that the onus on proving guilt rests on Landis, rather than Lance proving his innoncence.

Paddy McQuaid is already doing a pretty good job on their behalf...

UCI president Pat McQuaid said:
Quote:
"What's his agenda? The guy is seeking revenge. It's sad, it's sad for cycling. It's obvious he does hold a grudge.

"He already made those accusations in the past. I have to question the guy's credibility. There is no proof of what he says. We are speaking about a guy who has been condemned for doping before a court."

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Davey C
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PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 3:16 pm    Post subject: Re: I care Reply with quote

Rob of the Og wrote:
Davey C wrote:
topskull wrote:
I agree with all comments, but I do care.

It annoys me how L.A. attaches himself to cancer survivors, charities, makes money from guest appearances and all along weve been duped. As I get older, I have seen the suffering people go through with Cancer.... Its about Morals


You would rather he hadn't launched a massive cancer charity?


I'd rather he hadn't launched a profit-making venture that shares a name with his cancer charity so that he could make money off the back of that charity.


Ah well that's still one more charity launched than if he hadn't bothered at all.
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key ran
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PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steve McGinty wrote:
Odge wrote:

I suspect Lance/Johan will degrade Landis as a looney tune and say that the onus on proving guilt rests on Landis, rather than Lance proving his innoncence.

Paddy McQuaid is already doing a pretty good job on their behalf...

UCI president Pat McQuaid said:
Quote:
"What's his agenda? The guy is seeking revenge. It's sad, it's sad for cycling. It's obvious he does hold a grudge.

"He already made those accusations in the past. I have to question the guy's credibility. There is no proof of what he says. We are speaking about a guy who has been condemned for doping before a court."


more from Pat:

Quote:
These guys coming out now with things like this from the past is only damaging the sport. If they've any love for the sport they wouldn't do it," he said.


Makes me proud to be Irish!
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Scalatore
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PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't remember exactly, and I'm too lazy to check, but weren't Mr Landis's emails sent around April 29th.

Liege Bastogne Liege was on the 25th.

I'll bet Mr Landis was thinking, "Botheration. I did everything by the book. Maintained my innocence* throughout. Didn't rat on anyone. Alright, maybe I went a teensie bit overboard with the Greg Lemond business. But I did my time and now I'm stuck in cycling's tenth division while Vinokourov is winning classics. Basso's back, Valverde never went away. Why can't I get a break. I know!"

Never going to get back into the big leagues. Marginialised. Nothing left to lose.

*Still does wrt the testosterone.
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