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Position help please
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keithc440
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Joined: 23 May 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 9:02 pm    Post subject: Position help please Reply with quote

Am I too low and or long on this bike please ? I am the one in the blue and yellow top, black helmet and clear glasses on the white Giant.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/britishcycling/4840742718/in/set-72157624483689673/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/britishcycling/4840734568/in/set-72157624483689673/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/britishcycling/4840734778/in/set-72157624483689673/

Have not felt uncomfortable but it was pointed out recently that I am far too stretched out ? I am inclined to agree. On the tops I notice my hands sit a few centimeters behind the hoods. Watching everyone else they are on the hoods.
Problem is I have cut my steerer right down last year thinking the position was correct. I think a shorter stem might not be the solution and I need to go higher. New frame time ?
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Chrissylaa
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Try flipping your stem over.

It will shorten and raise your position and it's free.
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prince
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

it is hard to say from the photo's. It doesn't look to bad.

Position can be such an individual thing that only by havinga play with different stem lenghts and maybe some riser stems (flip the stem over) will you be able to tell.

Ask a couple of friends to borrow some different lenght stems etc...

I alway find a simple test is to try and ride a 10mile TT on your drops and see if you can get the power out and then hold onto it without fighting your bike the whole time.

You then need to try a few above race pace efforts i.e. closing a gap, attempting to break clear of the bunch, for about 1 to 3 mins and again see if you can do it without fighting the bike.

These simple free tests should give you an idea about your position.

If these don't work go and see Andy *CENSORED* in Bristol for a bike fit. I can put you in touch if you want. Just let me know. he does a full laser testing bike fit service that is very good.
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Steve P
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Before you do the stem thing, check the saddle height, Saddle setback and cleat position. No point changing the stem if these are wrong.
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prince
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steve P wrote:
Before you do the stem thing, check the saddle height, Saddle setback and cleat position. No point changing the stem if these are wrong.


how do you suggest he checks what he doesn't know? What should seat height be, setback be and cleat position?
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keithc440
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My setback could come forward a bit. That is one to maybe try.

Last edited by keithc440 on Sat Aug 21, 2010 12:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Steve P
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 7:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

prince wrote:
Steve P wrote:
Before you do the stem thing, check the saddle height, Saddle setback and cleat position. No point changing the stem if these are wrong.


how do you suggest he checks what he doesn't know? What should seat height be, setback be and cleat position?


He could be pro-active and send me a PM ?
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JONNO
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks like the guy behind you out of the Merc has a bigger problem. Anyhow if you are worried find a decent coach rather than knackering yourself and wasting time experimenting. Wink
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prince
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JONNO wrote:
Looks like the guy behind you out of the Merc has a bigger problem. Anyhow if you are worried find a decent coach rather than knackering yourself and wasting time experimenting. Wink


find a decent coach and throw your money away hand over fist so you can listen to his experience no matter how limited it might be and in the end learn nothing

listen to your own body Rolling Eyes
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Tucker
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 5:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

prince wrote:
JONNO wrote:
Looks like the guy behind you out of the Merc has a bigger problem. Anyhow if you are worried find a decent coach rather than knackering yourself and wasting time experimenting. Wink


find a decent coach and throw your money away hand over fist so you can listen to his experience no matter how limited it might be and in the end learn nothing

listen to your own body Rolling Eyes


+1
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stuart chatting
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 7:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some more pins in you number would help
if you can not see your front hub past your bars when you are in the drops you have the bars in the right place ( try this it works ) got this from a very old cycling book
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JimmyRay
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 8:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Until teh third picture Iw as umming and ahhing. But that to me looks horribly stretched.

To be fair, your back in all three shots looks natural and happy, but your arms look like they are being asked big questions.

More than anything, I'd say it would affect handling more than anything else. Shorter and higher stem is what I'd be looking at.

As mentioned, flip your stem over, or even better, buy a stem 20mm shorter and flip it. Yeah, you'll feel like a dick to start with, but actually, over a short amount of time, you'll realise its all the others trying to contort their bodies into unrealistic positions that are the dicks.

A bit of a beef in my bonnet... when ahead headset systems came into existence and use on the road, suddenly roadies front ends dropped 40mm. Before ahead systems, everyone was happy and arrow, using a longer stem to get a more aero position... the thought of replicating taht position and having 40mm of ugly spacers didn't sit well, so suddenly everyone was super flexible.

I don't buy into it

Look at the third phot, the guy in front of you IMO has good angle in his arms for the position and effort. I'd try and replicate that.
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mattr
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 9:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

keithc440 wrote:
Went to see a well know frame fitter who suggested I raise my saddle 26mm and move my set back forward by 8mm. He sorted my reach problem with this whilst sat on the jig but there was just too much weight on my shoulders and my nuts that I have not adopted his recommendations yet.
He did have the jig bars higher by 5mm though. Felt like my centre of gravity was far too forward on his recommended set up on the jig.
Well known, or any good? Some of them are robbing bästards who have done little more than decide to jump on the sportive rider bandwaggon. And promptly made a killing doing it. (and while i'm at it, some of these fitting "systems" with carefully worked out formulae and rules make me either boil Evil or Very Mad or Evil or Very Mad myself laughing)
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martin smith
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 9:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

if it's comfortable, what's the problem?
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JONNO
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tucker wrote:
prince wrote:
JONNO wrote:
Looks like the guy behind you out of the Merc has a bigger problem. Anyhow if you are worried find a decent coach rather than knackering yourself and wasting time experimenting. Wink


find a decent coach and throw your money away hand over fist so you can listen to his experience no matter how limited it might be and in the end learn nothing

listen to your own body Rolling Eyes


+1


Sorry to disillusion you but you get used to riding in a crap position after a few days. Go to any Sportive if you don't believe me. Maybe if you already have a good position (Like Tucker obv) then you will be able to tell straight away if it is wrong, but the same might not apply to a newcomer. A few quid spent on a DECENT frame fit could save months of messing around and wasted effort. Coks. Wink
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Steve P
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

martin smith wrote:
if it's comfortable, what's the problem?


But sometimes you need efficient with this
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keithc440
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for all the replies. Think I will be trying flicking the stem to start with and then a shorter stem (flicking if necessary). I think JimmyRay's comments about handling are right. I'm comfortable but feel that my hands should be able to get a more forward and firmer grip on the bars for cornering and putting in harder efforts. A bit higher and shorter is where I think I need to be myself.
It was Paul Hewitt's where I had the fitting. Impressed with how quickly he replicated my current position on the JIG. His adjustments certainly sorted the reach out but I felt far to forward in saddle (all the weight on my arms and nuts) that I don't feel I could ride in that position for long. Still have all his measurements though so it's something I may try but I think just a bit higher and shorter in the stem would do the trick.
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JONNO
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

On a simple 'style and street cred' point I have just checked the worlds top 25 best bike riders ever, out. None of them seem to have 'flipped their stem' as you put it. http://www.cyclinghalloffame.com/riders/alltime25.asp
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martin smith
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JONNO wrote:
On a simple 'style and street cred' point I have just checked the worlds top 25 best bike riders ever, out. None of them seem to have 'flipped their stem' as you put it. http://www.cyclinghalloffame.com/riders/alltime25.asp




heeeeeeeeeeeeeer's bernie.


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Billy Boy
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JONNO wrote:
On a simple 'style and street cred' point I have just checked the worlds top 25 best bike riders ever, out. None of them seem to have 'flipped their stem' as you put it. http://www.cyclinghalloffame.com/riders/alltime25.asp


Graeme Obree did. Cool
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