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mattr
World Champ
Joined: 16 Apr 2004
Posts: 12647
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 Posted: Sat May 15, 2010 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Thomo wrote: |
| Billy Boy wrote: |
| I didn't realise testers were so adept at not reading questions, quite impressive stuff really. |
You simply don't want to hear the answer given that's all. |
Or alternatively, the answer given is stupid, and we feel it should be mocked.  |
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Thomo
Div 1 Pro
Joined: 20 Dec 2002
Posts: 6964
Location: Milton Keynes (home) Hemel Hempstead (work)
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| Posted: Sat May 15, 2010 1:11 pm Post subject: Re: 2010 National 25m TT Champs website |
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| Bally wrote: |
| Thomo wrote: |
| Bally wrote: |
[/Paxman mode]
SIMPLE QUESTION, IS IT IN THE SPORT'S (IE TIME TRIALLING) BEST INTERESTS TO EXCLUDE SOMEONE WHO DID A SUB 50 MINUTE RIDE IN THE PAST 18 MONTHS FROM WHAT PURPORTS TO BE A NATIONAL TITLE?
[/Paxman mode] |
Read the replies on the other forum and here.
Besides the question wouldn't apply to this years event as none of that has happened. No rider who entered with a sub 50 minute qualifying ride would ever have his entry rejected on that basis (and none have this year), and no-one would deny that if such a thing happened it would be good for the sport.
Paul |
You're worse than any politician. I've read the topics on the other forum as you well know but you still haven't answered the question!
SIMPLE QUESTION, IS IT IN THE SPORT'S (IE TIME TRIALLING) BEST INTERESTS TO EXCLUDE SOMEONE WHO DID A SUB 50 MINUTE RIDE IN THE PAST 18 MONTHS FROM WHAT PURPORTS TO BE A NATIONAL TITLE? |
Doesn't matter how loud you shout the answer is always the same... it might not be the answer you want or expect but that doesn't mean it isn't answered. What you have asked has not happened anyway.
Paul
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Thomo
Div 1 Pro
Joined: 20 Dec 2002
Posts: 6964
Location: Milton Keynes (home) Hemel Hempstead (work)
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| Posted: Sat May 15, 2010 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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| mattr wrote: |
| Thomo wrote: |
| Billy Boy wrote: |
| I didn't realise testers were so adept at not reading questions, quite impressive stuff really. |
You simply don't want to hear the answer given that's all. |
Or alternatively, the answer given is stupid, and we feel it should be mocked. |
Or maybe it's because the question was stupid and any reasonable answer given has to be riduculed to try to save face. You can never win in this dicussion...
Paul
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mattr
World Champ
Joined: 16 Apr 2004
Posts: 12647
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| Posted: Sat May 15, 2010 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Thomo wrote: |
Or maybe it's because the question was stupid and any reasonable answer given has to be riduculed to try to save face. You can never win in this dicussion...
Paul |
No one can win, its testing that is being discussed. Even saying second place is first loser is being generous.
Thank christ i no longer have to deal with testing outside of stage races and club training. |
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Thomo
Div 1 Pro
Joined: 20 Dec 2002
Posts: 6964
Location: Milton Keynes (home) Hemel Hempstead (work)
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| Posted: Sat May 15, 2010 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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| mattr wrote: |
| Thomo wrote: |
Or maybe it's because the question was stupid and any reasonable answer given has to be riduculed to try to save face. You can never win in this dicussion...
Paul |
No one can win, its testing that is being discussed. Even saying second place is first loser is being generous.
Thank christ i no longer have to deal with testing outside of stage races and club training. |
And it's prejudiced and biased views like that that keeps the various discipines of cycling apart... I do many different ones and enjoy them all. You can't call youself a proper cyclist until you do so.
If your entire basis of this discussion is that you don't like this part of the sport and those that do and what happens within it, then you need to find a life in another sport.
Paul
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Billy Boy
T de F Winner
Joined: 11 Aug 2003
Posts: 30726
Location: Not Aylesbury
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| Posted: Sat May 15, 2010 1:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Thomo wrote: |
| mattr wrote: |
| Thomo wrote: |
| Billy Boy wrote: |
| I didn't realise testers were so adept at not reading questions, quite impressive stuff really. |
You simply don't want to hear the answer given that's all. |
Or alternatively, the answer given is stupid, and we feel it should be mocked. |
Or maybe it's because the question was stupid and any reasonable answer given has to be riduculed to try to save face. You can never win in this dicussion...
Paul |
The question is a very simple one, but for some reason you choose not to answer it. McC is equally blinkered and seems to think this is a black and white world.
Here's another question, so pay attention! 
Do you think the rules are fine as they are or would there be any benefit for the sport in reviewing them in terms of who can ride a national title event?
Now remember, read the words, and answer the question...
_________________
"Well done, you are 100% absolutely without a shadow of a doubt spot-bollock-on correct." - Tucker
"Eating is not for wimps" - coal miner
"most of us don't have your brilliance." - John McC |
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Thomo
Div 1 Pro
Joined: 20 Dec 2002
Posts: 6964
Location: Milton Keynes (home) Hemel Hempstead (work)
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| Posted: Sat May 15, 2010 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Billy Boy wrote: |
The question is a very simple one, but for some reason you choose not to answer it. McC is equally blinkered and seems to think this is a black and white world.
Here's another question, so pay attention!
Do you think the rules are fine as they are or would there be any benefit for the sport in reviewing them in terms of who can ride a national title event?
No remember, read the words, and answer it... |
The rules are perfectly fine as they are. If you don't know the rules then you can't argue against that either.
The original question has been answered.
Paul
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Billy Boy
T de F Winner
Joined: 11 Aug 2003
Posts: 30726
Location: Not Aylesbury
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| Posted: Sat May 15, 2010 1:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Thomo wrote: |
| Billy Boy wrote: |
The question is a very simple one, but for some reason you choose not to answer it. McC is equally blinkered and seems to think this is a black and white world.
Here's another question, so pay attention!
Do you think the rules are fine as they are or would there be any benefit for the sport in reviewing them in terms of who can ride a national title event?
No remember, read the words, and answer it... |
The rules are perfectly fine as they are. If you don't know the rules then you can't argue against that either.
The original question has been answered.
Paul |
I know the rules because what I've done is read them... you should try doing the same when reading a question.
_________________
"Well done, you are 100% absolutely without a shadow of a doubt spot-bollock-on correct." - Tucker
"Eating is not for wimps" - coal miner
"most of us don't have your brilliance." - John McC |
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mattr
World Champ
Joined: 16 Apr 2004
Posts: 12647
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| Posted: Sat May 15, 2010 1:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Thomo wrote: |
And it's prejudiced and biased views like that that keeps the various discipines of cycling apart... I do many different ones and enjoy them all. You can't call youself a proper cyclist until you do so.
If your entire basis of this discussion is that you don't like this part of the sport and those that do and what happens within it, then you need to find a life in another sport.
Paul |
 I've competed in most of the mainstream disciplines. And from having been involved in organising several of them at some point or other, are you absolutely sure that its not the arcane, outdated and inflexible attitude/rules of testing in the UK that keeps it apart?
Don't think about that for too long, you might not like the answer. |
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John McC
Moderator
Joined: 14 Jul 2003
Posts: 24510
Location: Leafy Barnet
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| Posted: Sat May 15, 2010 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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Any rule in particular, or just the whole lot?
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John McClelland's victory in the motor paced event with Derek Marloe on the derny was a thing of beauty (Oldmanof) |
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Thomo
Div 1 Pro
Joined: 20 Dec 2002
Posts: 6964
Location: Milton Keynes (home) Hemel Hempstead (work)
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| Posted: Sat May 15, 2010 1:48 pm Post subject: |
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| mattr wrote: |
| Thomo wrote: |
And it's prejudiced and biased views like that that keeps the various discipines of cycling apart... I do many different ones and enjoy them all. You can't call youself a proper cyclist until you do so.
If your entire basis of this discussion is that you don't like this part of the sport and those that do and what happens within it, then you need to find a life in another sport.
Paul |
I've competed in most of the mainstream disciplines. And from having been involved in organising several of them at some point or other, are you absolutely sure that its not the arcane, outdated and inflexible attitude/rules of testing in the UK that keeps it apart?
Don't think about that for too long, you might not like the answer. |
What rules do you think are arcane, which ones are outdated, and when is it best to break rules of competition? And inflexible attitude? Seems to me that the rules are kept up to date and keep pace with the changes going on as they are looked upon and changed every year if the members see fit.
And is it apart? You have just admitted to having done them, yet still seem to have this inflexible attitude against them, which is ironic considering your post...
Oh yes, as we are qualifying ourselves - I organise road races and time trials every year, and help organise cyclo-cross, commissaire road races, and sit on the Regional Board and also CTT District Committee. So I'm fairly diverse too.
Paul
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Robabank
E, Bronze
Joined: 31 May 2006
Posts: 364
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| Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 1:35 am Post subject: Re: 2010 National 25m TT Champs website |
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| Tucker wrote: |
Maybe rephrasing the question might help - IS ALEX DOWSETT A MEDAL CONTENDER IN WHAT PURPORTS TO BE A NATIONAL TITLE?
If the answer is yes, then excluding him devalues the result, no matter which hoops he has failed to jump through. |
I suggest that without any further delay you answer
Less Easy Question 3: UCI World Road and Track Champs qualification relies on performances over what preceding period?
and comment on whether CTT's qualifying requirements are that unusual/unreasonable |
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Tucker
Tour Winner
Joined: 03 May 2006
Posts: 15722
Location: Swindon
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| Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 5:52 am Post subject: Re: 2010 National 25m TT Champs website |
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| Robabank wrote: |
| Tucker wrote: |
Maybe rephrasing the question might help - IS ALEX DOWSETT A MEDAL CONTENDER IN WHAT PURPORTS TO BE A NATIONAL TITLE?
If the answer is yes, then excluding him devalues the result, no matter which hoops he has failed to jump through. |
I suggest that without any further delay you answer
Less Easy Question 3: UCI World Road and Track Champs qualification relies on performances over what preceding period?
and comment on whether CTT's qualifying requirements are that unusual/unreasonable |
Where did anyone say that the UCI World Road and Track Champs qualification criteria were fine and dandy? Try to focus on that which is actually relevant. Not that it's directly comparable anyway, as the worlds is the pinnacle of cycling, whereas pro riders pass through testing on DCs to bigger things. |
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Robabank
E, Bronze
Joined: 31 May 2006
Posts: 364
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| Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 8:54 am Post subject: Re: 2010 National 25m TT Champs website |
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| Tucker wrote: |
| Robabank wrote: |
Less Easy Question 3: UCI World Road and Track Champs qualification relies on performances over what preceding period?
and comment on whether CTT's qualifying requirements are that unusual/unreasonable |
Where did anyone say that the UCI World Road and Track Champs qualification criteria were fine and dandy? Try to focus on that which is actually relevant. |
I think it's relevant to highlight that the CTT National Champs field selection procedure in terms of qualifying period is pretty normal, since the opposite is being implied. Long time since I entered a road race - similar for BC too? The qualification rules for CTT champs are different to plain open events, precisely because it was thought that a fluke ride three years back wasn't a sufficient indicator of present form. Dowsett's sporadic participation creates a self-inflicted anomaly, for which the rules can be modified at next National Council if a majority of those who do give a toss so decide. Which only leaves the question of whether a lot of twattering on BookFace should override the rules as they currently stand. |
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John McC
Moderator
Joined: 14 Jul 2003
Posts: 24510
Location: Leafy Barnet
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| Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 8:05 pm Post subject: |
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Yer.
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John McClelland's victory in the motor paced event with Derek Marloe on the derny was a thing of beauty (Oldmanof) |
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Billy Boy
T de F Winner
Joined: 11 Aug 2003
Posts: 30726
Location: Not Aylesbury
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| Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 9:24 pm Post subject: |
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Point missed spectacularly. Marvellous stuff! 
_________________
"Well done, you are 100% absolutely without a shadow of a doubt spot-bollock-on correct." - Tucker
"Eating is not for wimps" - coal miner
"most of us don't have your brilliance." - John McC |
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Robabank
E, Bronze
Joined: 31 May 2006
Posts: 364
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| Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 10:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Billy Boy wrote: |
| Point missed spectacularly. Marvellous stuff! |
Surely the point was that someone desperate to rubbish time trialling had to resort to falsehood and dishonest argument? |
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Mal Firth
E, Gold
Joined: 06 Jun 2002
Posts: 2436
Location: sunny Horwich, England
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Tucker
Tour Winner
Joined: 03 May 2006
Posts: 15722
Location: Swindon
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| Posted: Tue May 18, 2010 6:11 am Post subject: |
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| Robabank wrote: |
| Billy Boy wrote: |
| Point missed spectacularly. Marvellous stuff! |
Surely the point was that someone desperate to rubbish time trialling had to resort to falsehood and dishonest argument? |
Not really - the point was excluding one of the best riders from a "National Championship" is stupid, regardless of who else does it or what hoops the rider has failed to jump through. Try to keep up. |
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Thomo
Div 1 Pro
Joined: 20 Dec 2002
Posts: 6964
Location: Milton Keynes (home) Hemel Hempstead (work)
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| Posted: Tue May 18, 2010 3:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Tucker wrote: |
| Robabank wrote: |
| Billy Boy wrote: |
| Point missed spectacularly. Marvellous stuff! |
Surely the point was that someone desperate to rubbish time trialling had to resort to falsehood and dishonest argument? |
Not really - the point was excluding one of the best riders from a "National Championship" is stupid, regardless of who else does it or what hoops the rider has failed to jump through. Try to keep up. |
I though the point was that you would rather riders break the rules to suit themselves rather than adhere to them like every onther rider has to?
Paul
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