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| Shoulfd helmet wearing be made compulsory to help prove driver liability? |
| Yes |
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18% |
[ 12 ] |
| No |
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81% |
[ 54 ] |
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| Total Votes : 66 |
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David Mclean
E, Bronze
Joined: 16 Apr 2004
Posts: 255
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 Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 1:16 pm Post subject: |
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You aren't sticking to the script.
I don't use Shimano because of the way the Japanese treated my great uncle in WW2.
Sorry, I just totally made that up and obv. didn't intend any offence. It's just that as the classic debates go Shi(t)mano, Crappag and SRAMbles is my fave, you can just take it so far.
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David Mclean
E, Bronze
Joined: 16 Apr 2004
Posts: 255
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David Mclean
E, Bronze
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ColT
E, Gold
Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 2157
Location: Tainan, Taiwan
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| Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 1:46 pm Post subject: |
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| David Mclean wrote: |
And the final nail in the coffin: here is Wiggins wearing headphones and no helmet whilst playing the Irish bike messenger "Tyres" in the sitcom Spaced:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sF6Lnxl8ZA |
Slight tangent, but I think I recall the female lead in Spaced wearing a sweatshirt with Dauphiné Libéré on the front in one episode I saw. (It may have been a dream, or a completely different woman/show/film.  )
End of ramble.
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Joursans
Div 2 Pro
Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Posts: 4840
Location: The Whole Year Inn
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| Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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If you wear hologram writstbands you'll never fall off your bike so no need for a helmet. 
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John McC
Moderator
Joined: 14 Jul 2003
Posts: 24510
Location: Leafy Barnet
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| Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 6:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Hans Datdodishes wrote: |
| I'd be more pro choice if the people who chose not to wear a helmet had private health cover |
But, according to the CTC's research, those wearing helmets are many times more likely to hit their head than those without, due to risk compensation and the simple fact that your head is twice as big with a lid on. So, perhaps the helmeted should provide their own private health cover?
Good wind up as always, Timothy
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giropaul
Cat 1 Groupie
Joined: 04 Nov 2004
Posts: 145
Location: Staffordshire
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| Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Hans Datdodishes wrote: |
| I'd be more pro choice if the people who chose not to wear a helmet had private health cover |
I don't follow your logic. If. as helmet supporters claim, you are more likely to survive WITH a helmet, then that will be a bigger, and potentially ongoing, cost to the NHS. |
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David Mclean
E, Bronze
Joined: 16 Apr 2004
Posts: 255
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Hans Datdodishes
T de F Winner
Joined: 28 Feb 2002
Posts: 28370
Location: On the Superior Forum with the cool kids
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| Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 7:32 pm Post subject: |
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| John McC wrote: |
| Hans Datdodishes wrote: |
| I'd be more pro choice if the people who chose not to wear a helmet had private health cover |
But, according to the CTC's research, those wearing helmets are many times more likely to hit their head than those without, due to risk compensation and the simple fact that your head is twice as big with a lid on. So, perhaps the helmeted should provide their own private health cover?
Good wind up as always, Timothy |
CTC are well known anti-helmet lobbyists. Of course their research will support their argument
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David Mclean
E, Bronze
Joined: 16 Apr 2004
Posts: 255
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John McC
Moderator
Joined: 14 Jul 2003
Posts: 24510
Location: Leafy Barnet
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| Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 7:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Hans Datdodishes wrote: |
| John McC wrote: |
| Hans Datdodishes wrote: |
| I'd be more pro choice if the people who chose not to wear a helmet had private health cover |
But, according to the CTC's research, those wearing helmets are many times more likely to hit their head than those without, due to risk compensation and the simple fact that your head is twice as big with a lid on. So, perhaps the helmeted should provide their own private health cover?
Good wind up as always, Timothy |
CTC are well known anti-helmet lobbyists. Of course their research will support their argument |
Timothy Cooper is well known anti-choice, pro-compulsion for helmets. Of course his research will support his argument.
CTC, on the other hand are not anti helmet, but pro choice, and have commissioned several studies to try to give a balanced view to their members and the wider cycling public.
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nedsoldman
E, Silver
Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Posts: 718
Location: bristol
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| Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Helmets can save lives but don't always. There is no argument there. However as a healthcare professional who works in neuro theatre and deals with major head trauma on a daily basis, often bike related, I know which side of the debate I fall on. I have a very nice Giro, and I never go out without it. |
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David Mclean
E, Bronze
Joined: 16 Apr 2004
Posts: 255
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| Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:04 pm Post subject: |
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| nedsoldman wrote: |
| Helmets can save lives but don't always. There is no argument there. However as a healthcare professional who works in neuro theatre and deals with major head trauma on a daily basis, often bike related, I know which side of the debate I fall on. I have a very nice Giro, and I never go out without it. |
Just out of interest would your opinion be reversed if you worked in cardio theatre?
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DenHaag
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Joined: 24 Aug 2008
Posts: 3078
Location: Northumberland
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| Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:14 pm Post subject: |
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Your 6 Music post makes no mention of Tom Ravenscroft. Why? |
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nedsoldman
E, Silver
Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Posts: 718
Location: bristol
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| Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:22 pm Post subject: |
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Helmets can save lives but don't always. There is no argument there. However as a healthcare professional who works in neuro theatre and deals with major head trauma on a daily basis, often bike related, I know which side of the debate I fall on. I have a very nice Giro, and I never go out without it.
Just out of interest would your opinion be reversed if you worked in cardio theatre?
I have, and it's not |
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Hans Datdodishes
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| Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 7:10 am Post subject: |
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Helmets don't hurt you when you wear them. I'm still sceptical about the motives of libertarians who quote falls in bicycle use when compulsion is applied - for example there is one Australian study that shows bike use fell, but if you look a bit further you find that participation in ALL sport fell during that particular period in that particular part of Australia.
They make  all difference in high speed car on bike incidents, and probably would have made no difference to the unfortunate bloke who died this week.
I doubt either pro or anti compulsion will change their views.
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Sausages
Cat 4 Groupie
Joined: 22 Feb 2008
Posts: 3
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| Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 7:48 am Post subject: |
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| Steve DT wrote: |
OP: I vaguely recall another case where a judge had concluded that by the rider not wearing a helmet there was a case of contributory negligence against him.
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Contributory negligence associated with not wearing a helmet was the first question/comment asked by BC solicitors dealing with a 'black and white drivers fault ' case I had.
I wonder how the arguments stack up with the motorcycle community, after all I guess a fair few of you guys can ride faster than most chubby people on a 50cc moped. |
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Martin Booth
E, Bronze
Joined: 24 Jan 2003
Posts: 384
Location: Leicesterhire
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| Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 8:02 am Post subject: helmets |
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What a load of ,i'll start wearing a helmet if every other road user is compelled to use one .And i mean everyone,wheather they be pedestrians or car drivers.Theres a far greater chance of suffering a head injury in a car crash than any cycling accident.................full f*****g stop.
But while we are on the subject ,lets have all cars painted flo yellow so,as a car driver i can see them coming in half light,with out doubt compulsary helmet wearing for all convertable cars,or open top cars and for good measure lets see all car drivers and passengers have to wear a HANS neck support ,as used by almost all motor race drivers and moto cross riders now.
Better still lets start implimenting some of the laws we already have,before we begin to make law yet more unenforceable laws.......*CENSORED*. |
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Plurien
E, Silver
Joined: 09 Dec 2003
Posts: 1966
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| Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 8:59 am Post subject: |
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How would helmet-wearing help put proper liability onto the driver, or make them liess likely to hit you?! - Wearing helmets only protects you after the hit.
It could be better to increase visibility first, because it would help to avoid collisions in the first place. I'm no fan of the old day-glo for style, and anyway drivers should be paying attention. Maybe we should all ride with high-intensity strobe lights as a way of bringing this issue of being 'unseen' up the agenda. Many lights now are so bright they hurt your eyes. No way will you not be seen. The annoyance to all around will secure awareness and could lead to action.
Drivers keep on killing and injuring riders with the plaintive noise 'I didn't see you' and that makes it hard to prove fault. The outcome remains, no matter whose fault. We won't be able to 'go Dutch*' right across ithe country so it won't be possible to design collisions out of Britain's roads. Besides, if you make superb cycle networks in one place, you might find it just pushes the risk elsewhere because drivers can say they thought there was a cycle lane and weren't looking out for riders.
- It's driver behaviour and practise that should change. Then we can see what else needs to be built. Driver impatience particularly seems to focus on riders who 'get in the way', or who 'break the law' by simply being there and trying to keep safe. There's the mistaken belief that riders should be in the gutter - anywhere out of the way - and that it's OK to hassle before overtaking, usually without waiting to do it safely. Drivers don't do this to horses or other vehicles, so it's an attitude problem which can be changed. They also overtake just before junctions and then turn L on you.
On the flip-side it's stupid to dive up the inside of traffic, blindsiding drivers. Jumping lights in the face of oncoming is tooo risky..., but it's not that simple because you're often safer to go before the green and be ahead of the traffic.
- Let's get drivers to start giving us room, being properly safe and thinking about us 'soft targets' just the same as they do about other vehicles and street furniture.
Turning to my own behaviour
...as a rider.
I don't wear a helmet going to our local shops. There is no consistency in my own behaviour, but I'm in no doubt about wearing a helmet, having had the benefit of protectiion on at least four occasions in city traffic. - Basically you can get up and run out of the road after the hit, so you don't subsequently get run over. I've also had a couple of off-road tumbles where it saved serious injury. Most recently I've seen a life saved in the Alps and stayed with the rider by the rock he hit till the ambulance arrived. No doiubt about the state of the guy and the state of his helmet.
I assume drivers have not seen me and ride accordingly.
...and as a driver. I will never hassle or hit a rider that I've seen. But I have seen riders doing TT up the A1 and the A31 across slip roads and know that you simply are not looking for anything going slower than 50mph on a sllip road...
I drive near the middle of the road. I don't need the full width of most roads and wonder why they are so wide in towns. There's plenty of room for pavement, riders - with or without cycle lane - and two-way traffic.
__________
*You are not allowed to ride on many roads in NL and MUST ride on the cycle path, even if it's narrow and meanders through countryside. Helmets are definitely not compulsory. Urban planning works with cycling - supermarkets are almost all local, so it's easier to go by bike. Residential quarters are linked to the town centre on cycle paths that go under the beltway. In towns the cycle paths often have total priority over other traffic, even on roundabouts.
- But you need to be aware that with more riders, there are more who become traffic casualties, so cycling wonderland is not so simple.
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Martin Booth
E, Bronze
Joined: 24 Jan 2003
Posts: 384
Location: Leicesterhire
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| Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 9:39 am Post subject: helmets |
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| ...........as an aside to this thread.Is it just me or has anyone else noticed that they are being given more room and time by motorists since last w/e.Or have I just had a lucky week,or even more likely.Am i going mad!!! |
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