| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Is cycling now a 'middle-class sport'? |
| Yes |
|
57% |
[ 41 ] |
| No |
|
42% |
[ 30 ] |
|
| Total Votes : 71 |
|
| Author |
Message |
Fritz
E, Gold
Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 3091
Location: Germany/Belgium
|
 Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 6:45 am Post subject: Is cycling now a 'middle-class sport'? |
 |
|
Following on from that 'Vicki' article it seems that now cycling is classed as a 'middle-class sport' along with sailing & rowing.
Do you consider cycling now as a 'middle-class sport'? |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Paul H.
E, Bronze
Joined: 04 Jul 2004
Posts: 314
Location: not numb
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 8:19 am Post subject: |
|
|
I thought that when I read it.
Would explain why we are hated so much by the working class in their tin boxes  . Lets face it, a good percentage of cars on the road these days are worth less than a decent road bike. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
JONNO
Div 1 Pro
Joined: 24 Jul 2006
Posts: 9031
Location: Up North
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 8:20 am Post subject: |
|
|
Maybe not riding to work, but certainly throwing your mountain bike on the back of your Audi and heading out of the city for a days posing is.
_________________
I was being chased by a police dog last week, and made the mistake of trying to escape through a little tunnel, over a see-saw and through a hoop of fire. It finally caught me as I was weaving in and out of some sticks. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Roy Gardiner
T de F Winner
Joined: 14 Jul 2003
Posts: 21249
Location: London and Essex
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 8:29 am Post subject: |
|
|
Nowadays when everyone owns a car, riding a bike is not 'lower class' because it's almost certain you've got a car as well.
In the US, FWIW, cycling is very much a 'professional classes' sport.
_________________
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken
"Everything in war is simple, but the simplest thing is difficult." Carl Von Clausewitz |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
martin smith
World Champ
Joined: 09 Jun 2003
Posts: 12187
Location: shoehorning kittens into jars
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 8:35 am Post subject: |
|
|
I think as a competitive sport it always has been.
_________________
Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
John McC
Moderator
Joined: 14 Jul 2003
Posts: 24510
Location: Leafy Barnet
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 8:39 am Post subject: |
|
|
As far as I'm concerned, it is a classless sport.
_________________
John McClelland's victory in the motor paced event with Derek Marloe on the derny was a thing of beauty (Oldmanof) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
martin smith
World Champ
Joined: 09 Jun 2003
Posts: 12187
Location: shoehorning kittens into jars
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 8:50 am Post subject: |
|
|
| John McC wrote: |
| As far as I'm concerned, it is a classless sport. |
yes but few chavs would be seen dead on a bike once they have a car. and it takes a reasonable amount of disposable income to take it seriously unless you are sponsored.
I think most competitive sports will tend to be middle class, purely on the basis that someone who can take a sport seriously enough to be competitive probably isn't going to spend the rest of their life stood in a dole queue. competitive sport, like capitalism, suits those who are prepared to make an effort. I bet even running, which has virtually no expensive kit required has a base of mostly professional people. certainly those i see out training look more like accountants than dole scum.
_________________
Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
KJ
T de F Winner
Joined: 18 May 2005
Posts: 26400
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 8:52 am Post subject: |
|
|
| martin smith wrote: |
| John McC wrote: |
| As far as I'm concerned, it is a classless sport. |
yes but few chavs would be seen dead on a bike once they have a car. and it takes a reasonable amount of disposable income to take it seriously unless you are sponsored.
I think most competitive sports will tend to be middle class, purely on the basis that someone who can take a sport seriously enough to be competitive probably isn't going to spend the rest of their life stood in a dole queue. competitive sport, like capitalism, suits those who are prepared to make an effort. I bet even running, which has virtually no expensive kit required has a base of mostly professional people. certainly those i see out training look more like accountants than dole scum. |
How does an accountant look? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
martin smith
World Champ
Joined: 09 Jun 2003
Posts: 12187
Location: shoehorning kittens into jars
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 8:56 am Post subject: |
|
|
| KJ wrote: |
| martin smith wrote: |
| John McC wrote: |
| As far as I'm concerned, it is a classless sport. |
yes but few chavs would be seen dead on a bike once they have a car. and it takes a reasonable amount of disposable income to take it seriously unless you are sponsored.
I think most competitive sports will tend to be middle class, purely on the basis that someone who can take a sport seriously enough to be competitive probably isn't going to spend the rest of their life stood in a dole queue. competitive sport, like capitalism, suits those who are prepared to make an effort. I bet even running, which has virtually no expensive kit required has a base of mostly professional people. certainly those i see out training look more like accountants than dole scum. |
How does an accountant look? |
you set them up...
_________________
Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Richard
World Champ
Joined: 28 Jun 2002
Posts: 14007
Location: Coventry
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 8:57 am Post subject: |
|
|
| martin smith wrote: |
| it takes a reasonable amount of disposable income to take it seriously unless you are sponsored. . |
Disagree here - I've had decent enough kit since I was a uni student and even when I was working in a pub on barely minimum wage I still went racing. It's harder to take up from scratch when you've got dependents/family as £1000 for a bike to race on is a big ask/luxury as well as clothing/licence/entry fees/etc
| martin smith wrote: |
| I bet even running, which has virtually no expensive kit required has a base of mostly professional people. certainly those i see out training look more like accountants than dole scum. |
guy in our running club has a porsche and is Oxford educated, there's a few people with BMW's as well but it is still a wide spread of people. I agree with John McC here - running and cycling are classless sports.
Now, triathletes - there's a solid professional / middle-class sport if ever there was one....
_________________
The internet is possibly the greatest bitch fest on earth. Expect anything than relentless ridicule for no good reason and your expectations are set way too high |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Billy Boy
T de F Winner
Joined: 11 Aug 2003
Posts: 30726
Location: Not Aylesbury
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 9:00 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Roy Gardiner wrote: |
Nowadays when everyone owns a car, riding a bike is not 'lower class' because it's almost certain you've got a car as well.
In the US, FWIW, cycling is very much a 'professional classes' sport. |
It's not worth anything. 
_________________
"Well done, you are 100% absolutely without a shadow of a doubt spot-bollock-on correct." - Tucker
"Eating is not for wimps" - coal miner
"most of us don't have your brilliance." - John McC |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
KJ
T de F Winner
Joined: 18 May 2005
Posts: 26400
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 9:10 am Post subject: |
|
|
| I guess we're using income as an indicator of class? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
De Rosa
World Champ
Joined: 04 Dec 2002
Posts: 10485
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 9:10 am Post subject: |
|
|
| In the Solihull CC we are all actually upper class and we don't want any middle class riff-raff joining us - they should go to the Coventry RC or Halesowen. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
John McC
Moderator
Joined: 14 Jul 2003
Posts: 24510
Location: Leafy Barnet
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 9:12 am Post subject: |
|
|
| De Rosa wrote: |
| In the Solihull CC we are all actually upper class and we don't want any middle class riff-raff joining us - they should go to the Coventry RC or Halesowen. |
West Midlands "upper class" isn't anything to shout about
_________________
John McClelland's victory in the motor paced event with Derek Marloe on the derny was a thing of beauty (Oldmanof) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Billy Boy
T de F Winner
Joined: 11 Aug 2003
Posts: 30726
Location: Not Aylesbury
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 9:12 am Post subject: |
|
|
| KJ wrote: |
| I guess we're using income as an indicator of class? |
I'm not. I have no class, regardless of how much money is in my pocket.
It appears that in true VR style the current answer is 50:50 
_________________
"Well done, you are 100% absolutely without a shadow of a doubt spot-bollock-on correct." - Tucker
"Eating is not for wimps" - coal miner
"most of us don't have your brilliance." - John McC |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Tom Butcher
E, Silver
Joined: 20 Aug 2003
Posts: 1575
Location: Derby
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 9:13 am Post subject: |
|
|
No I don't think it's a middle class sport - in our club of those that race there are quite a few lads from traditional trades as well as some from managerial or technical positions.
think most competitive sports will tend to be middle class, purely on the basis that someone who can take a sport seriously enough to be competitive probably isn't going to spend the rest of their life stood in a dole queue. competitive sport, like capitalism, suits those who are prepared to make an effort.
Absolute rubbish - working class - why do you equate being working class with workshy ? Arguably capitalism suits greedy self seeking bastards but that's another argument. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
martin smith
World Champ
Joined: 09 Jun 2003
Posts: 12187
Location: shoehorning kittens into jars
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 9:23 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Richard wrote: |
| martin smith wrote: |
| it takes a reasonable amount of disposable income to take it seriously unless you are sponsored. . |
Disagree here - I've had decent enough kit since I was a uni student and even when I was working in a pub on barely minimum wage I still went racing. It's harder to take up from scratch when you've got dependents/family as £1000 for a bike to race on is a big ask/luxury as well as clothing/licence/entry fees/etc |
so a reasonable level of disposable income then? you don't have to earn a lot for that, just have nothing else to spend it on. like you, i raced whilst at uni and as a pre-reg (well below minimum wage) but i had little else other than going out to spend my money on. and at 50p a pint there's only so much you can spend...
| Richard wrote: |
| martin smith wrote: |
| I bet even running, which has virtually no expensive kit required has a base of mostly professional people. certainly those i see out training look more like accountants than dole scum. |
guy in our running club has a porsche and is Oxford educated, there's a few people with BMW's as well but it is still a wide spread of people. I agree with John McC here - running and cycling are classless sports.
Now, triathletes - there's a solid professional / middle-class sport if ever there was one.... |
it's still going to have a higher proportion of professionals than you find in real life though. how many factory workers are there in the country to every porsche owning oxford educated person? do you have that many factory workers in your club? i'll bet hard cash the answer is no.
I'm not saying it is the way it should be, just that it is the way it is. on the other hand i do agree that cycling tends not to attract snobs so it is accepting of people regardless of 'class' whatever your definition of that may be.
as i said before, i don't think it is that people of any particular class would find it that difficult to get in to, just that those with the drive to do a hard competitive sport like cycling probably have the drive to get a decent job too.
[/i]
_________________
Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
martin smith
World Champ
Joined: 09 Jun 2003
Posts: 12187
Location: shoehorning kittens into jars
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 9:27 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Tom Butcher wrote: |
No I don't think it's a middle class sport - in our club of those that race there are quite a few lads from traditional trades as well as some from managerial or technical positions.
think most competitive sports will tend to be middle class, purely on the basis that someone who can take a sport seriously enough to be competitive probably isn't going to spend the rest of their life stood in a dole queue. competitive sport, like capitalism, suits those who are prepared to make an effort.
Absolute rubbish - working class - why do you equate being working class with workshy ? Arguably capitalism suits greedy self seeking bastards but that's another argument. |
working class does imply low earning though. and most of those who earn little wish they earned more. i'm arguing that those who are competitive are more likely to have worked their way up the tree that's all.
and greedy self seeking barstewards often get their comeuppance sooner or later when they have to rely on someone they have climbed over to get to the top  that's what i would like to think anyway and evolutionary altruism theories would seem to support that.
_________________
Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
DNAse
E, Gold
Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 2414
Location: Oxfordshire
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 9:31 am Post subject: |
|
|
Traditionally (were talking 70-100years ago) I think sports that have firm roots in amateurism were middle-class or upper class because you required money and time to take them seriously. Working class sports tended to be one were there was a clear professional element, boxing and football spring to mind. These definitions can and have rapidly changed, look at the change in demographic of people watching top-filght football over the past 20 years.
It is clear that over the past 50 years bicycle usage for transport has declined as car usage has increased. Bike have become seen more as toys rather than everyday working tools. I think this inevitably means cycleport becomes more middle-class. However, things are now changing on the transport front I believe. Although the sportif phenomenon appears to be chiefly middle-class driven.
_________________
"Train?! Training is for people with no natural ability!" |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Billy Boy
T de F Winner
Joined: 11 Aug 2003
Posts: 30726
Location: Not Aylesbury
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 9:35 am Post subject: |
|
|
| martin smith wrote: |
| Richard wrote: |
| martin smith wrote: |
| it takes a reasonable amount of disposable income to take it seriously unless you are sponsored. . |
Disagree here - I've had decent enough kit since I was a uni student and even when I was working in a pub on barely minimum wage I still went racing. It's harder to take up from scratch when you've got dependents/family as £1000 for a bike to race on is a big ask/luxury as well as clothing/licence/entry fees/etc |
so a reasonable level of disposable income then? you don't have to earn a lot for that, just have nothing else to spend it on. like you, i raced whilst at uni and as a pre-reg (well below minimum wage) but i had little else other than going out to spend my money on. and at 50p a pint there's only so much you can spend...
| Richard wrote: |
| martin smith wrote: |
| I bet even running, which has virtually no expensive kit required has a base of mostly professional people. certainly those i see out training look more like accountants than dole scum. |
guy in our running club has a porsche and is Oxford educated, there's a few people with BMW's as well but it is still a wide spread of people. I agree with John McC here - running and cycling are classless sports.
Now, triathletes - there's a solid professional / middle-class sport if ever there was one.... |
it's still going to have a higher proportion of professionals than you find in real life though. how many factory workers are there in the country to every porsche owning oxford educated person? do you have that many factory workers in your club? i'll bet hard cash the answer is no.
I'm not saying it is the way it should be, just that it is the way it is. on the other hand i do agree that cycling tends not to attract snobs so it is accepting of people regardless of 'class' whatever your definition of that may be.
as i said before, i don't think it is that people of any particular class would find it that difficult to get in to, just that those with the drive to do a hard competitive sport like cycling probably have the drive to get a decent job too.
[/i] |
So working in a factory or down a mine isn't a "decent job" then?
_________________
"Well done, you are 100% absolutely without a shadow of a doubt spot-bollock-on correct." - Tucker
"Eating is not for wimps" - coal miner
"most of us don't have your brilliance." - John McC |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
