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Paul Barber
E, Silver
Joined: 23 Dec 2002
Posts: 627
Location: Stoke
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 Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 11:25 am Post subject: |
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I agree with Hans on this! - red light = stop - i get hacked off when I'm riding through Manc seeing other riders causing a danger to themselves and other road users by jumping red lights.
So if there was an accident it would sound like this - i jumped the red cause it was safer - yep that would go down welll when making the claim |
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JimmyRay
E, Silver
Joined: 14 Jul 2004
Posts: 1838
Location: Exeter
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| Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 11:56 am Post subject: |
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It's shades of grey for me to be honest.
If a light is there for a genuine purpose, then yeah I'll always stop. Like pedestrian crossings with people there.
However, if a crossing has gone red and the person has long since passed by, I may very well go through the red.
Much as lights that control junctions that are necessary at peak times, may not be at quiet times (8.00am on a sunday morning), I may not always sit on a red with no one around for miles.
However, in heavy traffic I will follow the rules as it will only cause offense...
As mentioned before I find it very frustrating when lights are used to clam traffic, or here in Exeter to dissuade traffic from entering the city, as it makes the roads pretty unpleasant for other commuters (cyclists). It also encourages law breaking from all parties, there is a growing problem of cars running red lights here... which is in my opinion a direct reflection of the inappropriate placement of lights in the city.
I also think that this situation with people from all fronts being ore willing to run lights is a more dangerous situation than no lights at all.
Finally... Why is it the actions of a few cyclists are seen as indicative of all, yet such stereotyping of any other group/race/whatever you like would be seen as discriminatory. I for one say bollards to that, I look after myself, and that's it.
yes we should think about how we act and how we are perceived, but equally we should challenge any stereotyping. |
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JONNO
Div 1 Pro
Joined: 24 Jul 2006
Posts: 9031
Location: Up North
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| Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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Keep jumping those lights boys, lets pi55 EVERYONE off.
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I was being chased by a police dog last week, and made the mistake of trying to escape through a little tunnel, over a see-saw and through a hoop of fire. It finally caught me as I was weaving in and out of some sticks. |
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Des
Moderator
Joined: 19 Apr 2002
Posts: 16900
Location: Harrow
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| Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Lee wrote: |
| Cary de Weigh wrote: |
If any of you routinely ride through red lights then you are letting the rest of us down in my view. |
Oh well. I'd rather let you all down than do something that puts me in danger. 
I cross Swiss Cottage daily, coming from Adelaide road. I need to be on the outside lane approaching the lights, once the lights have changed I'm in the middle lane of 5. I go the minute the lights are on amber for the oppsitte direction, way before mine are on green, mainly because I feel its safer because I can reach the other side without dodging cars.
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I've used that junction several times a week for years Lee. Never felt the need to jump the lights though. Although I can understand how intimidating it can be if you're not used to it.
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Last edited by Des on Thu Jan 15, 2009 1:01 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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MadCow
Div 1 Pro
Joined: 14 Jan 2004
Posts: 8506
Location: Yorkshire
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| Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 12:54 pm Post subject: |
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| JimmyRay wrote: |
I changed jobs at the start of the year and I am wrestling with the lights right now. So far I am sticking to the rules, but to put in perspective, I have 27 sets of lights to go through in just under 4 miles.
This is bad enough, but the shortest and safest route to the office uses a cut through which the local autorities in their wisdom have discouraged motorists using (in favour of the by pass) by setting the priority of the lights agsint the cut through. It can take 5 mins to travel about 500 metres.
Now, I am only in the 2nd week but unless I find an alternative route I'll be jumping lights anytime soon.
As with speed limits, if the highways authority want people to observe the rules, apply them in a reasonable way. |
Pavement?  
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Tucker
Tour Winner
Joined: 03 May 2006
Posts: 15722
Location: Swindon
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| Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 1:04 pm Post subject: |
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| JimmyRay wrote: |
Finally... Why is it the actions of a few cyclists are seen as indicative of all, yet such stereotyping of any other group/race/whatever you like would be seen as discriminatory. I for one say bollards to that, I look after myself, and that's it.
yes we should think about how we act and how we are perceived, but equally we should challenge any stereotyping. |
Stereotyping isn't a bad thing necessarily - lets us make quick decisions based on past experience. So for e.g. if I hear a Citroen Saxo at 5000rpm, and turn around to see car filled with youths wearing baseball caps, Ill make sure that I dont give the driver any tricky decisions to make e.g. Ill stop before a pinch point. Why is this a bad thing?
So by the same favour drivers will stereotype cyclists - and if most of us are annoying feckers, then drivers will act as such. |
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JimmyRay
E, Silver
Joined: 14 Jul 2004
Posts: 1838
Location: Exeter
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| Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 1:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Tucker wrote: |
| JimmyRay wrote: |
Finally... Why is it the actions of a few cyclists are seen as indicative of all, yet such stereotyping of any other group/race/whatever you like would be seen as discriminatory. I for one say bollards to that, I look after myself, and that's it.
yes we should think about how we act and how we are perceived, but equally we should challenge any stereotyping. |
Stereotyping isn't a bad thing necessarily - lets us make quick decisions based on past experience. So for e.g. if I hear a Citroen Saxo at 5000rpm, and turn around to see car filled with youths wearing baseball caps, Ill make sure that I dont give the driver any tricky decisions to make e.g. Ill stop before a pinch point. Why is this a bad thing?
So by the same favour drivers will stereotype cyclists - and if most of us are annoying feckers, then drivers will act as such. |
But most of us aren't annoying feckers. That is the point. Your reference to the Saxo is valid to the saxo, but not the argument about cyclists... to be a fair comparison, then you would be saying that saxo drivers are indicative of all motorists attitudes to driving, which is not the case.
I think i have said before about being accosted at a red light by a pedestrian who was having a go at me as most of my 'mates' just went through red lights and were a nuisance. I tried to explain to him that because two people rode bikes, it did not mean they were automatically mates or had anything to do with eachother, but he genuinely thought we all huddled together under bridges or soemthing plotting.
It's that attitude (extreme case granted) that I have an issue with. |
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London Bus Chaser
Div 1 Pro
Joined: 15 Jan 2007
Posts: 6127
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| Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Cary de Weigh wrote: |
This is getting silly!
I guess what I am saying is that people who love cycling enough to be members of this forum should, in my opinion, set an example by not riding through red lights when people are crossing.
You cannot pick and choose which rules of the road you obey. If we don't obey the rules then we can't complain when other road users don't.
If any of you routinely ride through red lights then you are letting the rest of us down in my view. |
I ride in London.
If I go through a red light I do so at walking pace. If there are pedestrians crossing I go through dead slow and ensure that they have right of way.
As I said to a plod recently, who stopped me over this, I asked him if he would be as diligent in stopping all the cars that overtake me in a 20mph zone which is far more dangerous than me creeping through a red light. Again, blank expression from one of the Mets finest.
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Cary de Weigh
E, Silver
Joined: 01 Jun 2006
Posts: 810
Location: Birmingham
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| Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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| London Bus Chaser wrote: |
I ride in London.
If I go through a red light I do so at walking pace. If there are pedestrians crossing I go through dead slow and ensure that they have right of way.
As I said to a plod recently, who stopped me over this, I asked him if he would be as diligent in stopping all the cars that overtake me in a 20mph zone which is far more dangerous than me creeping through a red light. Again, blank expression from one of the Mets finest. |
Two wrongs don't make a right. Every time someone sees a cyclist go through a red light, it gives them an excuse to abuse cyclists. It may be safer for you to ride through a red light (although I doubt it in most cases), but it affects all cyclists' reputation and safety in the end. |
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Wozza
Div 1 Pro
Joined: 12 Jun 2003
Posts: 9188
Location: Herts
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| Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 5:43 pm Post subject: Re: Red Lights |
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| alexc wrote: |
| Cary de Weigh wrote: |
Sorry to raise this again, but I just started working two days a week in London and I'm shocked by the number of London cyclists who ride through red lights on pedestrian crossings. One nearly got me crossing Marylebone Road yesterday.
What is it with these guys?! We're never going to get the non-cycling public on our side while this carries on. They need a smack round the head in my view.  |
I commute 16 miles eachway every day and I ALWAYS roll through red lights when safe to do so, I have 25 sets each way and have NEVER been close to being hit, I usually go when the pedestrian rossing lihts are on, adn I have never had any trouble from motorists or pedestrians, Its so much safer than wobbling off in front of a car/truck trying to get your feet clipped in. |
Thats what i do aswell Alex.
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TBK
Div 3 Pro
Joined: 28 Oct 2003
Posts: 3984
Location: fighting the demons in my head........
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| Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 5:47 pm Post subject: Re: Red Lights |
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| Wozza wrote: |
| alexc wrote: |
| Cary de Weigh wrote: |
Sorry to raise this again, but I just started working two days a week in London and I'm shocked by the number of London cyclists who ride through red lights on pedestrian crossings. One nearly got me crossing Marylebone Road yesterday.
What is it with these guys?! We're never going to get the non-cycling public on our side while this carries on. They need a smack round the head in my view. |
I commute 16 miles eachway every day and I ALWAYS roll through red lights when safe to do so, I have 25 sets each way and have NEVER been close to being hit, I usually go when the pedestrian rossing lihts are on, adn I have never had any trouble from motorists or pedestrians, Its so much safer than wobbling off in front of a car/truck trying to get your feet clipped in. |
Thats what i do aswell Alex. |
God will be looking the other way one of these days 
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A positive mental attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. |
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John McC
Moderator
Joined: 14 Jul 2003
Posts: 24510
Location: Leafy Barnet
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| Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 5:49 pm Post subject: Re: Red Lights |
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| Wozza wrote: |
| alexc wrote: |
| Cary de Weigh wrote: |
Sorry to raise this again, but I just started working two days a week in London and I'm shocked by the number of London cyclists who ride through red lights on pedestrian crossings. One nearly got me crossing Marylebone Road yesterday.
What is it with these guys?! We're never going to get the non-cycling public on our side while this carries on. They need a smack round the head in my view. |
I commute 16 miles eachway every day and I ALWAYS roll through red lights when safe to do so, I have 25 sets each way and have NEVER been close to being hit, I usually go when the pedestrian rossing lihts are on, adn I have never had any trouble from motorists or pedestrians, Its so much safer than wobbling off in front of a car/truck trying to get your feet clipped in. |
Thats what i do aswell Alex. |
Then you are a very *CENSORED* boy. Shame on you!
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John McClelland's victory in the motor paced event with Derek Marloe on the derny was a thing of beauty (Oldmanof) |
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Wozza
Div 1 Pro
Joined: 12 Jun 2003
Posts: 9188
Location: Herts
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| Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 5:54 pm Post subject: Re: Red Lights |
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| John McC wrote: |
| Wozza wrote: |
| alexc wrote: |
| Cary de Weigh wrote: |
Sorry to raise this again, but I just started working two days a week in London and I'm shocked by the number of London cyclists who ride through red lights on pedestrian crossings. One nearly got me crossing Marylebone Road yesterday.
What is it with these guys?! We're never going to get the non-cycling public on our side while this carries on. They need a smack round the head in my view. |
I commute 16 miles eachway every day and I ALWAYS roll through red lights when safe to do so, I have 25 sets each way and have NEVER been close to being hit, I usually go when the pedestrian rossing lihts are on, adn I have never had any trouble from motorists or pedestrians, Its so much safer than wobbling off in front of a car/truck trying to get your feet clipped in. |
Thats what i do aswell Alex. |
Then you are a very *CENSORED* boy. Shame on you! |
I'm a work in progress, i get impatient what can i say? I just don't want to clip in and wobble off in front of someone or get clattered on a left turn.
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We are old we are young we are in this together. Vagabonds and children, prisoners forever. |
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MadCow
Div 1 Pro
Joined: 14 Jan 2004
Posts: 8506
Location: Yorkshire
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| Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:52 am Post subject: Re: Red Lights |
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[quote="Wozza"]
| John McC wrote: |
| Wozza wrote: |
| alexc wrote: |
| Cary de Weigh wrote: |
Sorry to raise this again, but I just started working two days a week in London and I'm shocked by the number of London cyclists who ride through red lights on pedestrian crossings. One nearly got me crossing Marylebone Road yesterday.
What is it with these guys?! We're never going to get the non-cycling public on our side while this carries on. They need a smack round the head in my view. |
I commute 16 miles eachway every day and I ALWAYS roll through red lights when safe to do so, I have 25 sets each way and have NEVER been close to being hit, I usually go when the pedestrian rossing lihts are on, adn I have never had any trouble from motorists or pedestrians, Its so much safer than wobbling off in front of a car/truck trying to get your feet clipped in. |
Thats what i do aswell Alex. |
Then you are a very *CENSORED* boy. Shame on you! |
I'm a work in progress, i get impatient what can i say? I just don't want to clip in and wobble off in front of someone or get clattered on a left turn.[/quote]
Precisely. I only run reds where I know I could be mashed if I stop at the red and try to pull off with the traffic. That's 1 set each way on my commute and ironically neither of them have those 'advanced cyclists stop' areas, even though the road has a cycle lane. I'd never run a red if I wasn't 100% familiar with the timing of it's changes and if I hadn't already had some kind of 'close shave' pulling away in the traffic from it.
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JONNO
Div 1 Pro
Joined: 24 Jul 2006
Posts: 9031
Location: Up North
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| Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:58 am Post subject: |
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I saw a lady in her late 50's probably, on a shopping bike with basket this morning sail straight through a set of reds while I was stopped waiting for them to change. I passed her before the next set where I stopped and she did exactly the same there. She was definately not your sterotypical light jumper thet's for sure. She must have been late for the Church coffee morning or something. 
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I was being chased by a police dog last week, and made the mistake of trying to escape through a little tunnel, over a see-saw and through a hoop of fire. It finally caught me as I was weaving in and out of some sticks. |
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Crew
Elite Poster
Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 217
Location: Cov
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| Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:23 pm Post subject: |
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I certainly don't agree in jumping lights. I annoys me when another cyclist does it when I'm waiting.
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Precisely. I only run reds where I know I could be mashed if I stop at the red and try to pull off with the traffic. That's 1 set each way on my commute and ironically neither of them have those 'advanced cyclists stop' areas, even though the road has a cycle lane. I'd never run a red if I wasn't 100% familiar with the timing of it's changes and if I hadn't already had some kind of 'close shave' pulling away in the traffic from it.
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If there is no where for me to go at reds and I've been filtering I'll either stop level with the boot of the first car as you get space when traffic starts moving to get into position or if the first car has left room before the line cut across the front of his car and wait on the left hand side.
Never had any problems doing this and for 3 years I dealt with a 16 mile commute.
I've seen cyclists jump the red lights when cars have also jumped red lights and the result was messy.
Ironically I was knocked off on a pedestrian crossing by a BMW driver when I was on green. I guess she thought it was clear so could go too.
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MadCow
Div 1 Pro
Joined: 14 Jan 2004
Posts: 8506
Location: Yorkshire
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| Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Crew wrote: |
I certainly don't agree in jumping lights. I annoys me when another cyclist does it when I'm waiting.
| Quote: |
Precisely. I only run reds where I know I could be mashed if I stop at the red and try to pull off with the traffic. That's 1 set each way on my commute and ironically neither of them have those 'advanced cyclists stop' areas, even though the road has a cycle lane. I'd never run a red if I wasn't 100% familiar with the timing of it's changes and if I hadn't already had some kind of 'close shave' pulling away in the traffic from it.
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If there is no where for me to go at reds and I've been filtering I'll either stop level with the boot of the first car as you get space when traffic starts moving to get into position or if the first car has left room before the line cut across the front of his car and wait on the left hand side.
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I'm intruiged as I've tried your first technique and been side swiped by the car behind accelerating hard and turning left on me with no signals. (These lights are quite set back from the junction).
Car leave space at the stop line? Most don't stop at them never mind before them, they're usually good couple of foot over, and in the case of the cyclists ASA's they treat them just like they are their own stop line. 
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Ste_S
E, Bronze
Joined: 28 Oct 2006
Posts: 303
Location: Wolverhampton
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| Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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Jumping ped crossing red lights is a no no - no matter how slowly you cycle through. All it takes is one ped seeing the green man and then run out not looking.
Jumping red lights at road junctions is up to the individual, I don't buy that's it safer to do so though and I don't buy that it gives cyclists a bad name. The drivers who get annoyed by that are likely to be annoyed by a cyclist just being there on "their" road |
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Starley
Cat 2 Groupie
Joined: 27 Aug 2008
Posts: 82
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| Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 10:16 pm Post subject: Re: Red Lights |
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| Wozza wrote: |
| John McC wrote: |
| Wozza wrote: |
| alexc wrote: |
| Cary de Weigh wrote: |
Sorry to raise this again, but I just started working two days a week in London and I'm shocked by the number of London cyclists who ride through red lights on pedestrian crossings. One nearly got me crossing Marylebone Road yesterday.
What is it with these guys?! We're never going to get the non-cycling public on our side while this carries on. They need a smack round the head in my view. |
I commute 16 miles eachway every day and I ALWAYS roll through red lights when safe to do so, I have 25 sets each way and have NEVER been close to being hit, I usually go when the pedestrian rossing lihts are on, adn I have never had any trouble from motorists or pedestrians, Its so much safer than wobbling off in front of a car/truck trying to get your feet clipped in. |
Thats what i do aswell Alex. |
Then you are a very *CENSORED* boy. Shame on you! |
I'm a work in progress, i get impatient what can i say? I just don't want to clip in and wobble off in front of someone or get clattered on a left turn. |
learn to trackstand and then you won't have to click in or out!
personally, I will filter left at a red or go through a pedestrian crossing in both cases if there are absolutely no pedestrians around. Otherwise I stop at red lights. However well you think you've sized up the situation there's always a small risk you've missed something or are assuming something about someone else's behaviour which isn't the case and could cause an accident and injury to someone else. I'd rather not have that on my conscience. |
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officer bob
E, Gold
Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 2173
Location: Up & down the M1
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| Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 11:34 am Post subject: |
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Its not the the ' it was safe to do so' attitude that I think is wrong, it's the ' them f*6king cyclists' impression that is given to the motorist who is actually obeying the traffic signal that stinks.
What I find amusing is that quite often it is the very people who rant at inconsiderate motorists,who then think they can lead by example......not!
out the other day on the 610 towards Ambergate, when some Discovery clad 'pro' came sailing by,so I accellerates onto his wheel for a few hundred metres and as we approach the lights which turn red...........
he sails thro', causing the vehicles exiting the junction to brake to avoid him,****
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