Should BC object to the latest legacy plans?

[Plurien]

What do you think?
BC has said the plans are 'unacceptable'
Eastway users have certainly made views known

Obviously this isn't a wider question about BC or about Eastway users, it's a simple question and simple answer.
It's not about wanting a velodrome or BMX 'instead' it's a simple question about what is on offer in the plan. Velodrome and BMX are in there anyhow.

- Given that the plan is 'unacceptable' would you oppose and seek conditions plus changes or seek changes without conditions?

[trying to be as neutral as poss in posing Q...]

[Tom Butcher]

Yes - my concern is about making sport accessible and the loss of recreational space - I also wonder about how viable the velodrome will be in the long term and whether the need was really for something this grand rather than a simpler and much cheaper (both in the short and long term) track.

[mho]

Of course they should make a formal objection the only bit we seem to be getting of any acceptable standard at the site is a Velodrome.

[Plurien]

keep voting

[Thomo]

[JohnC]

[Thomo]

[JohnC]

[KJ]

Do you have a problem with a velodrome?

I have no problem with any type of cycling facility but I'm getting really tired of this sniping at tracks. A covered track is available for use in all weathers, teaches bike handling skills and riding in a group in a controlled environment, perfect for groups from schools and clubs.

As for it not getting used. Think again. This arguement was used when Manchester first was suggested and it's now the most heavily used track in the world.

If you want to make friends and influence people try not to alienate those who are on your side!

[Thomo]

[JohnC]

The track may or may not be used (certainly Newport is empty a lot of the time). I would hazard that BC senior management would largely relocate to London in the post Olympics period; that is where it will all be happening and very convenient for transport links. So it may be the most highly used velodrome in the world. I am sure that their will be plenty of European competition and elite track-specific development.

Its usage will be dwarfed by the loss of usage for road and off road on the legcay site, though.

The velodrome is good for schools and clubs, but it cannot compensate for the loss of the road and off road. The kids in East London who come into competitive cycling start off on their BMX/mountain bikes. We can supply them with road bikes and introduce them to competiton (circuit/off road/TT).

Using the the track to promote cycling to schools and the club would mean that they require transport to the facility, special kit/bikes, limited track time and numbers. The track cannot provide the competitive opportunities that a legacy road and off road circuit as specified in the planning permission and as announced by Sport England/BC/The Mayor

Anyone who goes along with the removal of the best road /off road facility in the UK are not on our side. The effects of the new plans are obvious. Anyone who is not on our side now is unlikely to change their position. They didn't do it over the temporary replacement either.

Those that used Eastway are aware of the issues and it will be these people who push for a proper legacy replacement.

[hunterbark]

John, simply look at the use of Manchester 9am to 10pm, 7 days a week, consider the population size close to the London track and do the figures for yourself, get some sense. Have you now given up on the idea that BC are moving to the London track, that lie of yours appears to have stopped now you've been found out, most people are sick of this by now.

[Thomo]

So you are totally against the Velodrome then. You could have said so right from the beginning and we could have settled all this ages ago.

Oh - Newport empty? Why is it that several of the coaches in our Region can't get the track time cos it's always booked? It's probably the 2nd most used track in the world!

Paul
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[hunterbark]

Well once it's built and there's a few grumpy old men trying to discourage people off riding it to prove their point, we'll know where to point the finger. The velodrome can only be good for the area, so embrace it along with the other facilities, the more popular any facility gets, the more popular cycling gets, then you'll get your sustained funding, try to see the link and work towards moving things forwards.

[KJ]

[JohnC]

Problem is we've lost the best used cycling facility in UK and are gaining a track. Legacy said track + road + off road.

At Eastway we would get 100+ at a club timetrial, 200+ at a meeting taking 3 or 4 hours, week in week out, meetings on most days. + there were always people there training.

And yes, the kids did cycle to Eastway, as I did and most others.

Without Eastway currently, today is the 3rd race in the division this year. Last year there would have been 3 times a week at least at Eastway this time of year.

The races that there are are oversubscribed; all our racing (apart from above 3 races) is taking place in 3 other divisions. That is the demand that a place like Eastway generates.

[Roy Gardiner]

We shouldn't fight amongst ourselves.

The Velodrome is long overdue and very welcome. IMO it will be 100% used from the day it opens -- London is bigger than Manchester, Watson.

The issue is that at the time of bidding it was said that the legacy Velopark would be bigger and better than the existant.
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[mho]

[Plurien]

The debate isn't velodrome vs what was on Eastway - This false dichotomy simply supports the case for those who have removed the road circuit and the London's only mountainbike cross-country facility.

It is not correct to say that a velodrome won't be used - it will be massively over-subscribed at peak times, will be used largely by people already in the sport and will be able to cope with limited numbers and a relatively low average. This is not a sign of success, it's a sign of demand which cannot be met, even outside peak times. The velodrome is more exclusive: It has hardly any times when it's 'turn up and ride' and even if it was, you would still have to do 'track familiarisation' and ride a bike which has no applicability outside so does not relate to the sort of bikes kids would regularly ride into Eastway for a spot of dirt-jumping or hacking round the 'BMX' that was there.
Road and off-road events can be for up to 200 riders all at once, so to say 'the velodrome will be more heavily used than Eastway' is probably not the whole picture, though I expect there are times when people might prefer to be indoors, as long as they can get a ride.

But what I really mean is that this isn't going anywhere as a discussion because you have to face it that road riding, time-trialling and mountainbike are all Olympic events too which happen to have a very well-established user base which derived from the wonderful provision which was Eastway. Some of the country's top riders in these disciplines started out on Eastway. Some diversified into other disciplines, but it is absolutely certain that without the accessibility, openness and attractiveness of Eastway as a resource for E Inner London there would not be the people who make a community that should have been consulted but which blatantly was positively excluded from the plans which were drawn up after London won the bid. The central location meant that people regularly came from all points of the compass, up to 70 or 80 miles out for evening and weekend races - The site was of regional importance and needs to be replaced for that value to the disciplines - in London.
Remember too, that if you're making that journey of an evening you want to know that you're going to get a ride.

The velodrome was always going to be welcome for what it would add to the site and the region. It was never going to be 'instead of' which is what seems to be the driving force in almost all of the postings for and against above. I'm sorry that the poll has been subverted to that end.

As Roy said, let's not fight amongst ourselves. We should accept diversity and different disciplines or we really will not be worthy of public investment since those narrow-minded values can be seen to spread into other areas of social responsibility and inclusion.

I like track, downhill, BMX, XC, road racing, time-trialling, criteriums, cycle polo, verts, sportives, cyclocross, trials, street, flatland, dirt, freeride - whatever. It's far better for people to find something they enjoy and to go out and do it. So much the better, I think, if it's on a bike since that means they respect me and mine for what we do. The present plans turn that on its head by saying 'you can only do structured activities in our park' and 'you can't do the things which you know made your community so strong and so inclusive'.

The issue which gets me so strongly is we weren't even asked and then we've been denied the right to get a hearing. It is a case of human rights and being free to enjoy a pursuit which is to the common good.

[Hans Datdodishes]

Hog Hill.
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I'm a qualified coach.