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Should BC have a mission statement?
YES
30%
 30%  [ 14 ]
NO
17%
 17%  [ 8 ]
Not bothered
52%
 52%  [ 24 ]
Total Votes : 46

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Hans Datdodishes
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

david123 wrote:
All Ive done is tied in what you say to you, the avatar, to your BS self portrait ,to every thing you do and stand for.Your ridiculous pomposity is evidence enough to dismiss everything you say and your unceasing attacks on John C show you up for the cowerd(picture the scene 1942,desert island off north Africa ,the axis forces land and up pops u no whu to sell them some of his precous sand,Vud u like some sand here or if you like dune by the shore.vas is ur name /My name is Hans Up and so they were,he did the rest of the war as a trolee dolee on a submarine,true story) that you obviously are.You recently deserted anywhere you thought I might be and when I spotted that I thought ,John C got chased around the place,lets make a daisy chain,now your feeling the heat again an its not fair anymore.If you look in the mirror you will see why its not fair anymore


But you know I'm right though Wink
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KJ
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

david123 wrote:
All Ive done is tied in what you say to you, the avatar, to your BS self portrait ,to every thing you do and stand for.Your ridiculous pomposity is evidence enough to dismiss everything you say and your unceasing attacks on John C show you up for the cowerd(picture the scene 1942,desert island off north Africa ,the axis forces land and up pops u no whu to sell them some of his precous sand,Vud u like some sand here or if you like dune by the shore.vas is ur name /My name is Hans Up and so they were,he did the rest of the war as a trolee dolee on a submarine,true story) that you obviously are.You recently deserted anywhere you thought I might be and when I spotted that I thought ,John C got chased around the place,lets make a daisy chain,now your feeling the heat again an its not fair anymore.If you look in the mirror you will see why its not fair anymore


If you have so much time on your hands why don't you do something useful like campaigning for the legacy amongst those who can actually do something about it rather than us country yokels? Very Happy
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Des wrote:
No because London cyclists especially in inner London, will as a whole be worse off. Even more so if the Herne Hills long term future is not settled, as the lease expires next year.
poor london cyclists. Laughing
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Plurien
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NIMBYism definitely isn't what EUG's about.
Not in My Back Yard means you don't want whatever's proposed.
We actually want MORE of what's proposed. That's right, more Olympic sport - especially the ones we had before Eastway closed.
We would like the needs of our community to be taken into account by the planners. These needs might be a bit wider than some organisations are able to cope with. History shows you can't put a lid on this kind of thing; not in a democracy anyhow.
- Maybe that's why I started this thread... but no, it isn't.

Obviously I think BC should have a mission statement. There are times when it would definitely have been a help to have the mission.
For the record, EUGs mission is;-
“To campaign for the New Eastway to have improved facilities for all disciplines of cycle-sport (including infrastructure such as club and changing rooms, car parks etc) without any facilities being lost during the construction phases.”
- Criticise if you like, but anyone, anytime can point to it and say we know what we're doing. If you take the present situation it looks as if we failed, but that would only apply if the fat lady had sung. She's not even out of the bath yet.
EUG is definitively NOT some anti-BC organisation. It actively encourages BC to assist in its aims, which seems a pretty reasonable thing to ask. IF EUG was convinced that BC is no good, we wouldn't keep on at it, would we?

I am interested to find out if people are bothered by BC not having a mission statement and, if they are, what they think should be in it.

- ps: Any sign of those velopark meeting minutes, Hans?
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Hans Datdodishes
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Des wrote:
No because London cyclists especially in inner London, will as a whole be worse off. Even more so if the Herne Hills long term future is not settled, as the lease expires next year.


I hope that the current negotiations lead to a secure future for the velodrome in order that it may continue to bring on our current and future cycling stars as well as providing wonderful leisure facilities for London. It will complement the new velodrome being developed in East London - Ken Livingstone

Glass half empty again Des. I'm sure the powers that be are dealing with Herne Hill
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KJ
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Plurien wrote:
NIMBYism definitely isn't what EUG's about.
Not in My Back Yard means you don't want whatever's proposed.
We actually want MORE of what's proposed. That's right, more Olympic sport - especially the ones we had before Eastway closed.
We would like the needs of our community to be taken into account by the planners. These needs might be a bit wider than some organisations are able to cope with. History shows you can't put a lid on this kind of thing; not in a democracy anyhow.
- Maybe that's why I started this thread... but no, it isn't.

Obviously I think BC should have a mission statement. There are times when it would definitely have been a help to have the mission.
For the record, EUGs mission is;-
“To campaign for the New Eastway to have improved facilities for all disciplines of cycle-sport (including infrastructure such as club and changing rooms, car parks etc) without any facilities being lost during the construction phases.”
- Criticise if you like, but anyone, anytime can point to it and say we know what we're doing. If you take the present situation it looks as if we failed, but that would only apply if the fat lady had sung. She's not even out of the bath yet.
EUG is definitively NOT some anti-BC organisation. It actively encourages BC to assist in its aims, which seems a pretty reasonable thing to ask. IF EUG was convinced that BC is no good, we wouldn't keep on at it, would we?

I am interested to find out if people are bothered by BC not having a mission statement and, if they are, what they think should be in it.

- ps: Any sign of those velopark meeting minutes, Hans?


Delusions of grandeur Rolling Eyes Wink


Last edited by KJ on Fri Apr 27, 2007 12:18 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Billynobrakes
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Couldn't give a stuff if BC have a Mission Statement or not. I think it's quite clear what they do and what they aim to do. Their list of objectives posted by Trevor Reade are clear and concise and their is no need to 'flower it up' for the sake of PR.

What I find incredible about this whole situation is that I actually sympathise with EUG and in principle support what you stand for. The way you are going about things however is doing nothing to encourage me to further support your actions. This shouldn't be about driving devides between different factions it should be about working to ensure the best possible results for all.

Plurien I think you have posted some really good stuff on here and I have been able to learn alot about what is happening with these facilities, you obviously feel strongly about campaigning to maintain cycling facilities which is to be applauded. But to start a thread like this dilutes all that good work so much, it is completely counterproductive. All it does is highlight in bright lights the other agendas at play here which I find hugely disappointing.
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Hans Datdodishes
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Plurien wrote:
- ps: Any sign of those velopark meeting minutes, Hans?


No, I'm too busy. Completed on one sale today, pressing to exchange on two more this afternoon, plus eight overdue rating appeals. Plus taking the odd break to reply to the anti BC brigade, of which you of course are not one, just to make that point perfectly clear
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hans Datdodishes wrote:
Des wrote:
No because London cyclists especially in inner London, will as a whole be worse off. Even more so if the Herne Hills long term future is not settled, as the lease expires next year.


I hope that the current negotiations lead to a secure future for the velodrome in order that it may continue to bring on our current and future cycling stars as well as providing wonderful leisure facilities for London. It will complement the new velodrome being developed in East London - Ken Livingstone

Glass half empty again Des. I'm sure the powers that be are dealing with Herne Hill


You're very confident Rolling Eyes
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Hans Datdodishes
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

marc burden wrote:
Hans Datdodishes wrote:
Des wrote:
No because London cyclists especially in inner London, will as a whole be worse off. Even more so if the Herne Hills long term future is not settled, as the lease expires next year.


I hope that the current negotiations lead to a secure future for the velodrome in order that it may continue to bring on our current and future cycling stars as well as providing wonderful leisure facilities for London. It will complement the new velodrome being developed in East London - Ken Livingstone

Glass half empty again Des. I'm sure the powers that be are dealing with Herne Hill


You're very confident Rolling Eyes


Its either that or adopt the London mentality
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Hans Datdodishes
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is no answer, because I am right, again.
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Killer C
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Billynobrakes wrote:
I think it's quite clear what they do and what they aim to do. Their list of objectives posted by Trevor Reade are clear ...


I'm not sure I agree.

1. I don't think it is always clear what they do. A lot of the argument about Eastway's replacement, which on a personal level I have no interest in, has been about what BC have or have not been doing. I suspect they have been doing a lot behind the scenes that we don't know about.

2. It is not clear to me what they aim to do. Do they aim to represent all cyclists? Sometimes they seem to, sometimes they don't.

With regard to the objects ...

(a) to encourage, promote, develop and control the sport and pastime of cycling in all its forms amongst all sections of the community in Great Britain, the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands;
So why don't they control time trialling?


(b) to support and protect the interests of their members, by all such lawful means as the National Council of the BCF may from time to time think fit;
That has to be the vaguest statement going.

I suspect that this is taken from the constitution of BCF which represents its legal definition, much like a charity has a governing instrument which defines what they are allowed to do. These are normally very wide ranging and vague to allow them a wide scope.

What I would hope to see would be something more specific such as ...
Objective: To promote and encourage cycling as a sport within schools.
Activities:
- To appoint cycling schools liaison officers.
- To develop promotional material for use by affiliated clubs.

I think this is reasonably clear.
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KJ
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Killer C wrote:
Billynobrakes wrote:
I think it's quite clear what they do and what they aim to do. Their list of objectives posted by Trevor Reade are clear ...


I'm not sure I agree.

1. I don't think it is always clear what they do. A lot of the argument about Eastway's replacement, which on a personal level I have no interest in, has been about what BC have or have not been doing. I suspect they have been doing a lot behind the scenes that we don't know about.

2. It is not clear to me what they aim to do. Do they aim to represent all cyclists? Sometimes they seem to, sometimes they don't.

With regard to the objects ...

(a) to encourage, promote, develop and control the sport and pastime of cycling in all its forms amongst all sections of the community in Great Britain, the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands;
So why don't they control time trialling?

How long have you got?

(b) to support and protect the interests of their members, by all such lawful means as the National Council of the BCF may from time to time think fit;
That has to be the vaguest statement going.

I suspect that this is taken from the constitution of BCF which represents its legal definition, much like a charity has a governing instrument which defines what they are allowed to do. These are normally very wide ranging and vague to allow them a wide scope.

What I would hope to see would be something more specific such as ...
Objective: To promote and encourage cycling as a sport within schools.
Activities:
- To appoint cycling schools liaison *CENSORED*.
- To develop promotional material for use by affiliated clubs.


I think this is reasonably clear.
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George Gilbert
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Plurien wrote:
NIMBYism definitely isn't what EUG's about.
Not in My Back Yard means you don't want whatever's proposed.
We actually want MORE of what's proposed. That's right, more Olympic sport - especially the ones we had before Eastway closed.


For the record, I said:

George Gilbert wrote:
The EUG is portraying itself like all NIMBY groups. Incessently ranting and raving about something that will only affect those people in the area to the point where nobody else cares anymore.


...not that it is one.

Which is exactly my point - it's all about the way in which you go about things and how you come across, not what you're aiming for.

Through the actions of those representatives of the EUG that post here (although I do accept, Plurien, your posts are very definitely at the sensible end of the scale), the EUG has managed to turn itself from being perceived as a group of people concerned for the wider community (which is good), to being perceived as a group of people who will backstab and insult anyone and everyone who gets in the way of their own selfish needs (which is bad).

Whilst I can't say that I approve of Hans' baiting of you, he is exactly the kind of person (a former user of Eastway) who you should have been able to win over in seconds had your campaign been thoughtful and diplomatic. Instead, it really is quite remarkable how so much ill will is directed towards the group now.

As you seem to be keen on these Mission Statements, can I suggest that before anybody from the EUG posts about Eastway that they re-read yours and see if each point that is made in the post conforms to it? For example I don't see anything in the statement about going out of your way to slander various members of BC and equally I fail to see how doing so furthers your objectives.

Quite frankly I'm stunned at what a PR disaster the EUG has pulled off on here. Several people have made helpful suggestions and they've all been ignored and/or generate further insults from the EUG against those trying to aid your cause. It's the distorted facts that leap out from the page and the streams of venomous diatribe that have been directed towards various individuals and BC which will stick in peoples minds - not how many hectares are being lost at Eastway.

My advice to you (all) is to campaign positively. Instead of moaning about this that and the other, look to how you can add to the plans. Plan to put on the most amazing series of events at Hog Hill so that it becomes a national facility where people from across the country want to come and race. If you achieve that you will be able to look back and be proud of what you've done not just for those former users of Eastway, but for everyone - a true legacy.
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Hans Datdodishes
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my defence, I only started baiting when I saw the anti-BC rhetoric being wheeled out
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hans Datdodishes wrote:
marc burden wrote:
Hans Datdodishes wrote:
Des wrote:
No because London cyclists especially in inner London, will as a whole be worse off. Even more so if the Herne Hills long term future is not settled, as the lease expires next year.


I hope that the current negotiations lead to a secure future for the velodrome in order that it may continue to bring on our current and future cycling stars as well as providing wonderful leisure facilities for London. It will complement the new velodrome being developed in East London - Ken Livingstone

Glass half empty again Des. I'm sure the powers that be are dealing with Herne Hill


You're very confident Rolling Eyes




Its either that or adopt the London mentality


You have a very wide brush to be tarring us with then?
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gary K wrote:
It is a good idea to have a mission statement, as it sets everyone on the same path to what is trying to be achieved.

I never realised BC didn't have one, but it would probably not make any mention of medals, as that is the department of the WCPP, who should also have one IMHO.

So, next question:

What should BC's mission statement be?

Maybe we can save them £10k, which could be used to promote and aid (financially) the Premier Calendar events?


Mission Impossible?
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Plurien
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well George, I don't suppose you will agree, but we do campaign positively and we have achieved a lot - especially this week. The CEO of the ODA confirmed to our political sponsors that Hog Hill will be open in September and that the '34ha is still available', which ain't bad.
To be criticised as negative is fair enough if this hadn't been going on so long - We knew Eastway would go in 2003 and we were ready to negotiate a relocation from February 2004 when we published the 'Book of New Eastway' which actually specified what it would take. We never said 'no' and we always sought as many meetings as possible - so many I've completely lost count, and four more this week, not including press.
You don't get to hear about most of the stuff we do for our sport (quite apart in my case from running the family team and promoting a few races here and there) so it's possibly true that you only get to hear the bad stuff - especially if you're not a member of the EUG.

What is undeniable, is that on the whole the EUG has achieved more for the people who were doing cycle sport on Eastway than any other body, apart from the LDA and its money - and it loses a lot of points for taking Eastway in the first place. LB Redbridge gets a gold star and was EUG ever lucky with that exploratory meeting in 2005!

If we now have the ear of the CEO of the ODA it's only because we made this into an issue which wouldn't go away for him. That's not something to be repentant about, though it's true to say that we all earnestly wish this whole matter had been resolved long ago.

As to the BC thing - well I dealt with that in an earlier posting this week. It might be worth adding that f BC was clear as to its aims, its objectives and its clients I'm sure we could all see where to turn for help
- Just like I did in November 2003 when I made that call to Manchester, only to be told that everything was in hand and I should keep my nose out. It all seems an awfully long time ago, but I do recall the first meeting after that in December 2003 with London 2012 where EDAW said they'd been told by BC that no replacement of Eastway would be needed once there was a velodrome. - This is all perfectly true.
It was about then that things all went off the rails as far as many of BC's regional officers were concerned and it's been a bit of a struggle ever since. There are many more officers of BC who are critical of its actions, but they can speak for themselves.
Do you wonder that some are a little skeptical and want to see a few things change? A lot of what BC does is done just right, and I don't have a principled objection against it - I only organise under BC, for instance - but the idea of change shouldn't ever be taken as a negative or as a 'moan' per se - isn't that a negative and unprogressive view?
I find that people only moan when something's wrong and they're not prepared to do something about it for themselves. Having a mission makes it easy for all to understand what they are meant to be doing.

Sorry if you think that doing what it takes to get high-level support for a community group has 'damaged' BC in some way, but really it's a bit more robust than that, and still deserves the right to come in and do the right thing by the people who did cycle sport on Eastway. After all, the way is and always was there for BC to support the EUG (as long as KJ doesn't think that's delusional).
- Why shouldn't an organisation like BC have a clause in its mission which has to do with acting in the interests of its members? (and no, I don't mean in providing legal assistance and insurance services, which are each contracted-out) Can't it be a bit accountable in that area?
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Plurien
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you want to see comments by those who are really left out, you could try the trade press;-
http://www.building.co.uk/story.asp?sectioncode=284&storycode=3084321&c=1

or websites reflecting community interests
http://www.gamesmonitor.org.uk/

This is just two sources - there are many many more.

The people at London 2012 - whether ODA or LOCOG have a bunker mentality and it's probably justified. They're not going to win in the popularity stakes by bringing so much change. Actually we recognised that a long time ago and they almost always find we're positively trying to help them achieve their aim.
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Brian Cookson
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Plurien wrote:
I do recall the first meeting after that in December 2003 with London 2012 where EDAW said they'd been told by BC that no replacement of Eastway would be needed once there was a velodrome. - This is all perfectly true.


Michael - I have kept out of this nonsense because I'm sick of your misinformation and misrepresentation of the BC position, and it appears that most people have the same view. However I can't allow you to repeat this statement unchallenged.

If an employee of EDAW said this then they were mistaken. Please provide evidence of who from EDAW said this, on what occasion and on what they based this information, including evidence of where it was said or written by a BC person or in a BC document and by whom.

If you can't, I suggest you withdraw this statement and don't repeat it again.

Brian.

PS If you have views about how BC should be run, all you need to do is go to a meeting of your region as a club representative and start making your views known and discussing them with others, then you can get yourself elected as a national councillor and try and persuade the delegates from other regions that your ideas are sensible. It's as simple as that.
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