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madball
Cat 1 Groupie
Joined: 12 Oct 2007
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 Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 9:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Max Drury wrote: |
| Mr Average wrote: |
| you couldn't do a bicep curl on a ball if you had weak abs. have you ever tried it??!! |
Yes you could, if overactive muscles are doing the job of weak and inhibited ones. e.g Your rectus abdominus (movement muscle )maybe relatively strong/toned but your intrinsic core stabilisers may be relatively weak.
I'm a fan of gym based training but it's about choosing the appropriate exercises performed properly. Not just swinging weights around or balancing on a ball with bad form.
Having said that, you might be a perfect physical specimen..but if you do a lot of miles, I doubt it.
Btw, How will doing an isolation exercise for your biceps carry over to the bike? |
How does any core stabiliser work transfer across to bike work, it isn't something i think of when i am riding  |
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legro
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Joined: 28 Feb 2002
Posts: 28780
Location: Colchester
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| Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 9:19 pm Post subject: |
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aren't you the lucky one
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madball
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Joined: 12 Oct 2007
Posts: 199
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| Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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| legro wrote: |
| aren't you the lucky one |
The day you hear cyclists talking about engaging there core stabilisers on a ride is quite possibly the time to give up. It isn't a pilates class you know  |
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Max Drury
E, Silver
Joined: 10 May 2004
Posts: 1542
Location: Drury Lane
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| Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 12:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Roy Gardiner wrote: |
| Max Drury wrote: |
| I'm a fan of gym based training but it's about choosing the appropriate exercises performed properly. Not just swinging weights around or balancing on a ball with bad form. Having said that, you might be a perfect physical specimen..but if you do a lot of miles, I doubt it. |
I have often wondered if, for cyclists, a trip to the gym is even necessary. Would it be possible to compile a set of simple floor-based equipment-free exercises that would be of benefit - push-ups, sit-ups and the like?
How many push-ups can the average racing cyclist do, if any? |
I think so, although sit ups probably aren't a great exercise as they cause high compressive loads on your low back. Most of us would probably end up using our psoas muscle to do sit ups because it becomes very well developed in bike riders...also causing increased compression on the lower back.
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Roy Gardiner
T de F Winner
Joined: 14 Jul 2003
Posts: 21249
Location: London and Essex
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| Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 12:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Max Drury wrote: |
| Roy Gardiner wrote: |
| Max Drury wrote: |
| I'm a fan of gym based training but it's about choosing the appropriate exercises performed properly. Not just swinging weights around or balancing on a ball with bad form. Having said that, you might be a perfect physical specimen..but if you do a lot of miles, I doubt it. |
I have often wondered if, for cyclists, a trip to the gym is even necessary. Would it be possible to compile a set of simple floor-based equipment-free exercises that would be of benefit - push-ups, sit-ups and the like?
How many push-ups can the average racing cyclist do, if any? |
I think so, although sit ups probably aren't a great exercise as they cause high compressive loads on your low back. Most of us would probably end up using our psoas muscle to do sit ups because it becomes very well developed in bike riders...also causing increased compression on the lower back. |
I'd be interested in a pointer to a set of suitable exercises, with a guide to the right and wrong way to do them, if such exists.
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"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken
"Everything in war is simple, but the simplest thing is difficult." Carl Von Clausewitz |
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KJ
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Joined: 18 May 2005
Posts: 26400
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| Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 12:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Roy Gardiner wrote: |
| Max Drury wrote: |
| Roy Gardiner wrote: |
| Max Drury wrote: |
| I'm a fan of gym based training but it's about choosing the appropriate exercises performed properly. Not just swinging weights around or balancing on a ball with bad form. Having said that, you might be a perfect physical specimen..but if you do a lot of miles, I doubt it. |
I have often wondered if, for cyclists, a trip to the gym is even necessary. Would it be possible to compile a set of simple floor-based equipment-free exercises that would be of benefit - push-ups, sit-ups and the like?
How many push-ups can the average racing cyclist do, if any? |
I think so, although sit ups probably aren't a great exercise as they cause high compressive loads on your low back. Most of us would probably end up using our psoas muscle to do sit ups because it becomes very well developed in bike riders...also causing increased compression on the lower back. |
I'd be interested in a pointer to a set of suitable exercises, with a guide to the right and wrong way to do them, if such exists. |
I'm watching this thread with interest. |
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legro
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Location: Colchester
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| Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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me too
_________________
www.mastercoach.co.uk
NLP Practitioner
Fear leads to anger....Anger leads to Stress......Stress leads to Doobies...and Doobies leads to Twinkies
The spirit of Brian must live on
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madball
Cat 1 Groupie
Joined: 12 Oct 2007
Posts: 199
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| Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Personally i'm not a great fan crunches/sit-ups. I would generally suggest using exercises such as the plank on its own or using an SB. Holding the correct pose for upwards of 30 secs will target the stabilisers. Include rotational work as this won't be used during cycling activities. |
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Roy Gardiner
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Joined: 14 Jul 2003
Posts: 21249
Location: London and Essex
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| Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 1:30 pm Post subject: |
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| madball wrote: |
| Personally i'm not a great fan crunches/sit-ups. |
Included as an example only;
| Quote: |
| I would generally suggest using exercises such as the plank on its own or using an SB. Holding the correct pose for upwards of 30 secs will target the stabilisers. Include rotational work as this won't be used during cycling activities. |
as I said, a pointer to a web page containing instructions for a set of exercises would be gratefully received, as I didn't understand a word of that.
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"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken
"Everything in war is simple, but the simplest thing is difficult." Carl Von Clausewitz |
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Odge
E, Gold
Joined: 20 Aug 2008
Posts: 3143
Location: pounding the pavement
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| Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Roy Gardiner wrote: |
[
| Quote: |
| I would generally suggest using exercises such as the plank on its own or using an SB. Holding the correct pose for upwards of 30 secs will target the stabilisers. Include rotational work as this won't be used during cycling activities. |
as I said, a pointer to a web page containing instructions for a set of exercises would be gratefully received, as I didn't understand a word of that. |
How to do the plank - http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=MHQmRINu4jU
most I can do in one go is 90secs, lad in our club do 4mins+ 
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KJ
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Joined: 18 May 2005
Posts: 26400
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| Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 2:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Roy Gardiner wrote: |
| madball wrote: |
| Personally i'm not a great fan crunches/sit-ups. |
Included as an example only;
| Quote: |
| I would generally suggest using exercises such as the plank on its own or using an SB. Holding the correct pose for upwards of 30 secs will target the stabilisers. Include rotational work as this won't be used during cycling activities. |
as I said, a pointer to a web page containing instructions for a set of exercises would be gratefully received, as I didn't understand a word of that. |
What you need Roy is a good instructor who will teach you how to do the exercises in the correct manner. It is too easy to do exercises in the wrong manner when just using a website or dvd. When you have the correct techniques you can fit the exercises into your training regime. |
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Billy Boy
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Joined: 11 Aug 2003
Posts: 30726
Location: Not Aylesbury
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| Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 2:29 pm Post subject: |
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| KJ wrote: |
| Roy Gardiner wrote: |
| madball wrote: |
| Personally i'm not a great fan crunches/sit-ups. |
Included as an example only;
| Quote: |
| I would generally suggest using exercises such as the plank on its own or using an SB. Holding the correct pose for upwards of 30 secs will target the stabilisers. Include rotational work as this won't be used during cycling activities. |
as I said, a pointer to a web page containing instructions for a set of exercises would be gratefully received, as I didn't understand a word of that. |
What you need Roy is a good instructor who will teach you how to do the exercises in the correct manner. It is too easy to do exercises in the wrong manner when just using a website or dvd. When you have the correct techniques you can fit the exercises into your training regime. |
What?
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KJ
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Joined: 18 May 2005
Posts: 26400
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| Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Billy Boy wrote: |
| KJ wrote: |
| Roy Gardiner wrote: |
| madball wrote: |
| Personally i'm not a great fan crunches/sit-ups. |
Included as an example only;
| Quote: |
| I would generally suggest using exercises such as the plank on its own or using an SB. Holding the correct pose for upwards of 30 secs will target the stabilisers. Include rotational work as this won't be used during cycling activities. |
as I said, a pointer to a web page containing instructions for a set of exercises would be gratefully received, as I didn't understand a word of that. |
What you need Roy is a good instructor who will teach you how to do the exercises in the correct manner. It is too easy to do exercises in the wrong manner when just using a website or dvd. When you have the correct techniques you can fit the exercises into your training regime. |
What? |
or lifestyle |
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Roy Gardiner
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Joined: 14 Jul 2003
Posts: 21249
Location: London and Essex
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| Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Billy Boy wrote: |
| KJ wrote: |
| When you have the correct techniques you can fit the exercises into your training regime. |
What? |
The Gardiner Regime.
Monday-Friday: Home to work if it's not raining or freezing. 115 miles if 5 days.
Saturday and/or Sunday: Group ride 40-60 miles, conditions as above and if no other priority and ICBA.
Hardly any racing since Eastway's death, hoping to re-introduce some this year.
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"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken
"Everything in war is simple, but the simplest thing is difficult." Carl Von Clausewitz |
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Big-C
Div 1 Pro
Joined: 17 Aug 2005
Posts: 9404
Location: Compton
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| Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Odge wrote: |
| Roy Gardiner wrote: |
[
| Quote: |
| I would generally suggest using exercises such as the plank on its own or using an SB. Holding the correct pose for upwards of 30 secs will target the stabilisers. Include rotational work as this won't be used during cycling activities. |
as I said, a pointer to a web page containing instructions for a set of exercises would be gratefully received, as I didn't understand a word of that. |
How to do the plank - http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=MHQmRINu4jU
most I can do in one go is 90secs, lad in our club do 4mins+ |
or not, actually 
she's over-flexing her lumbar spine, her abdobinals are popping and her neck is in the wrong place. Apart from that, she's perfect ... 
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Straight Outta Compton |
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KJ
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Joined: 18 May 2005
Posts: 26400
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| Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Big-C wrote: |
| Odge wrote: |
| Roy Gardiner wrote: |
[
| Quote: |
| I would generally suggest using exercises such as the plank on its own or using an SB. Holding the correct pose for upwards of 30 secs will target the stabilisers. Include rotational work as this won't be used during cycling activities. |
as I said, a pointer to a web page containing instructions for a set of exercises would be gratefully received, as I didn't understand a word of that. |
How to do the plank - http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=MHQmRINu4jU
most I can do in one go is 90secs, lad in our club do 4mins+ |
or not, actually
she's over-flexing her lumbar spine, her abdobinals are popping and her neck is in the wrong place. Apart from that, she's perfect ... |
See my post above  |
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Roy Gardiner
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Joined: 14 Jul 2003
Posts: 21249
Location: London and Essex
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| Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 3:36 pm Post subject: |
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| KJ wrote: |
| See my post above |
So is the general view that there are no simple exercises that can be learnt from a book or web page that will help a cyclist in upper-body where we so sadly lack? Are they all so complicated?
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"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken
"Everything in war is simple, but the simplest thing is difficult." Carl Von Clausewitz |
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KJ
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Joined: 18 May 2005
Posts: 26400
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| Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 3:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Roy Gardiner wrote: |
| KJ wrote: |
| See my post above |
So is the general view that there are no simple exercises that can be learnt from a book or web page that will help a cyclist in upper-body where we so sadly lack? Are they all so complicated? |
My view anyway. It's very easy to perform an exercise incorrectly. At best it doesn't achieve what it's meant to achieve, at worst you can damage yourself. |
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Big-C
Div 1 Pro
Joined: 17 Aug 2005
Posts: 9404
Location: Compton
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| Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Roy Gardiner wrote: |
| KJ wrote: |
| See my post above |
So is the general view that there are no simple exercises that can be learnt from a book or web page that will help a cyclist in upper-body where we so sadly lack? Are they all so complicated? |
not particularly, however
1 - the plank is a supposed to be an ab exercise and for it to work (safely) it shouldn't be done as 'prescribed' in that poor video
2 - not everyone is good at visual learning or even understanding the concepts shown, so sometimes instruction directly is better.
In my experience (both personally and of clients) cyclists aren't that good at muscle recruitment, due to the nature of the exercise, they tend to think sympistically of 'pushing the pedals down' (which whislt that is what cycling ultimately is) there is more bio-mechanically to it
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Roy Gardiner
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Joined: 14 Jul 2003
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Location: London and Essex
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| Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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Plank 1: [url] http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=MHQmRINu4jU[/url]
Plank 2: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ar2iRusnnc&feature=related
Now the young Kiwi/Aussie looks 'better' (and I don't [size=7](just) mean cos she's wearing a bit less)[/size] in the sense of more fluid/relaxed, but is she doing it any better?
I can't tell.
This is hopeless -- who wants to go to an instructor for what's a secondary set of conditioning?
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"Everything in war is simple, but the simplest thing is difficult." Carl Von Clausewitz |
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