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AlbertHerring
E, Silver
Joined: 02 Apr 2008
Posts: 1342
Location: Cistridentine Nottingham
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 Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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| More to the point than criticising the idea of selection on an (albeit flawed) criterion of sporting merit, which is even more stupid than riding on dragstrips, why haven't CTT got round to using these modern electrical calculating machines that seem to be all the rage to do some kind of evening up between different courses to make the comparison between times on different courses a bit fairer? It's not like the sport isn't full of mathmoes, is it? |
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PNuT
Moderator
Joined: 12 Sep 2002
Posts: 18512
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| Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 3:49 am Post subject: Re: time trial entry.. |
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| the belly wrote: |
when will the rttc get nto the present century?
you enter a time trial really early only to be told 2 weeks before that youve not got a place even though you entered well before most of the others... just because your time aint fast enough... when will it be 1st come 1st served... then you cant enter another that same weekend because the 2 week before rule.. why not have online entry? http://www.entrycentral.com/ ? why not on the day entry if the event aint full? its about bloody time the organization got int the real world..
how will anyone ever get a faster time if they cant get on the bloody faster courses?
online entry must be the way. and when you pay the money your in....what is wrong with that....  |
in my experience a half decent rider will get a good enough qualifying time even on a fairly poor couse.... so why not take a look at yourself rather than everything around you?
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PNuT, who could forget PNuT
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the belly
Cat 2 Groupie
Joined: 16 Oct 2007
Posts: 33
Location: hinckley
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| Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 7:33 am Post subject: |
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it just seems most of you have gone off on a tangent.. why cant they do it 1st come 1st sevrved? and on line entry...? and a few on the line entries...  |
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mattr
World Champ
Joined: 16 Apr 2004
Posts: 12647
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| Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 7:35 am Post subject: |
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| the belly wrote: |
| it just seems most of you have gone off on a tangent.. why cant they do it 1st come 1st sevrved? and on line entry...? and a few on the line entries... |
Because then you get a field of organised riders, rather than a field of good riders.
I mean, if i enter the 2010 TDF now i should get a ride, shouldn't i?
(online and EoL is another matter altogether) |
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Des
Moderator
Joined: 19 Apr 2002
Posts: 16900
Location: Harrow
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| Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 7:43 am Post subject: |
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On-line entry is being trialed this season in quite a few CTT events.
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Xavier
Cat 1 Groupie
Joined: 04 Apr 2006
Posts: 146
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| Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 9:08 am Post subject: |
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| the belly wrote: |
| it just seems most of you have gone off on a tangent.. why cant they do it 1st come 1st sevrved? and on line entry...? and a few on the line entries... |
Or just pedal harder? |
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Megman
Div 2 Pro
Joined: 11 Jul 2003
Posts: 5786
Location: Not in Lich any more
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| Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 9:24 am Post subject: |
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| the belly wrote: |
| it just seems most of you have gone off on a tangent.. why cant they do it 1st come 1st sevrved? and on line entry...? and a few on the line entries... |
If you EOL and get no. 119, what are you going to do for the next 3 hours until your start time (I am assuming you arrived early) |
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Tucker
Tour Winner
Joined: 03 May 2006
Posts: 15722
Location: Swindon
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| Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 11:03 am Post subject: |
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| the belly wrote: |
| it just seems most of you have gone off on a tangent.. why cant they do it 1st come 1st sevrved? and on line entry...? and a few on the line entries... |
They could do it FCFS, but they don't because it's stupid. Online entry I'll agree with. |
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Rob of the Og
E, Gold
Joined: 12 Jan 2005
Posts: 2256
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| Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 11:24 am Post subject: |
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| Des wrote: |
| On-line entry is being trialed this season in quite a few CTT events. |
Without actually telling the organiser in at least one case, resulting in riders thinking that they'd entered but the organiser not knowing about them.
The thing with FCFS is that it should be up to the organiser. If he has a full-field with more than 10 days to go then he should be within his rights to close the entry, and set the field at his leisure. He could also return excess entries immediately, giving those riders time to get into another event. The current rules expressly prevent this - the organiser has to wait until the deadline and select the field on ability. So if you have a good PB there is no incentive to be organised and enter early. And if you're slower you can enter months in advance and not find out you're rejected until it's too late to enter anything else. |
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Xavier
Cat 1 Groupie
Joined: 04 Apr 2006
Posts: 146
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| Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 11:43 am Post subject: |
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| Rob of the Og wrote: |
| If he has a full-field with more than 10 days to go then he should be within his rights to close the entry, and set the field at his leisure. |
So the fastest people get entry as long as they enter with more than 10 days to go? What happens if the field fills up with 11 days to go, do you enter the 120 fastest people from them?
FCFS would be a ridiculous system for TTs where entry is based on merit. It is a race after all, you should earn your right to ride on fast/popular courses. |
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Tucker
Tour Winner
Joined: 03 May 2006
Posts: 15722
Location: Swindon
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| Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 11:47 am Post subject: |
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| Out of (mild) interest, would a long 21 guarantee entry to all open TTs? |
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Xavier
Cat 1 Groupie
Joined: 04 Apr 2006
Posts: 146
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| Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 11:56 am Post subject: |
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| A recent event on the U47 in Cirencester closed on a long 21, that's the fastest open 10 I've ever heard of. Apart from that the answer's yes. A long 21 would also get you into the national 10 most years (but not this year, at the moment it's 21:23 unless there are more entries to come in) |
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Rob of the Og
E, Gold
Joined: 12 Jan 2005
Posts: 2256
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| Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 1:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Xavier wrote: |
| Rob of the Og wrote: |
| If he has a full-field with more than 10 days to go then he should be within his rights to close the entry, and set the field at his leisure. |
So the fastest people get entry as long as they enter with more than 10 days to go? What happens if the field fills up with 11 days to go, do you enter the 120 fastest people from them?
FCFS would be a ridiculous system for TTs where entry is based on merit. It is a race after all, you should earn your right to ride on fast/popular courses. |
In a RR all entries are at the discretion of the organiser. I just think that TT organisers should have the same freedom. If they have 120 riders two weeks before then why should the rules stop them taking those 120 and doing their startsheet then if they chose?
My Line 1 is 20.04 so I'm not likely to get many entries returned but I wouldn't wait until week-Monday before to put my entry in. Organisers have enough to do without sorting through a rush of last-minute entries, especially if they already have 120. |
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Xavier
Cat 1 Groupie
Joined: 04 Apr 2006
Posts: 146
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| Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 1:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Rob of the Og wrote: |
My Line 1 is 20.04 so I'm not likely to get many entries returned but I wouldn't wait until week-Monday before to put my entry in. Organisers have enough to do without sorting through a rush of last-minute entries, especially if they already have 120. |
That's probably why the entry cut off is 11-12 days before the event. |
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Davey C
Div 2 Pro
Joined: 01 Jun 2008
Posts: 5745
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| Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Xavier wrote: |
| Rob of the Og wrote: |
My Line 1 is 20.04 so I'm not likely to get many entries returned but I wouldn't wait until week-Monday before to put my entry in. Organisers have enough to do without sorting through a rush of last-minute entries, especially if they already have 120. |
That's probably why the entry cut off is 11-12 days before the event. |
If I had closed my event then I would have had about 3 riders!! 
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Rob of the Og
E, Gold
Joined: 12 Jan 2005
Posts: 2256
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| Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Xavier wrote: |
| Rob of the Og wrote: |
My Line 1 is 20.04 so I'm not likely to get many entries returned but I wouldn't wait until week-Monday before to put my entry in. Organisers have enough to do without sorting through a rush of last-minute entries, especially if they already have 120. |
That's probably why the entry cut off is 11-12 days before the event. |
Yes, week-Tuesday before a weekend event. You are also obliged to post out startsheets by 5 days before, and these need to be printed so in reality you only have a few days to seed the field and that's mid-week in the week before.
Reg 26 is clear that Selection by "first entries received" is not permissible. but the Duties of Promoting Secretaries does say You may return entries which will not be accepted before the closing date if you have already received more than a full field. so perhaps there is a little scope for organisers to have their discretion. |
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Xavier
Cat 1 Groupie
Joined: 04 Apr 2006
Posts: 146
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| Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Rob of the Og wrote: |
Yes, week-Tuesday before a weekend event. You are also obliged to post out startsheets by 5 days before, and these need to be printed so in reality you only have a few days to seed the field and that's mid-week in the week before.
Reg 26 is clear that Selection by "first entries received" is not permissible. but the Duties of Promoting Secretaries does say You may return entries which will not be accepted before the closing date if you have already received more than a full field. so perhaps there is a little scope for organisers to have their discretion. |
Yeah, that one's to allow slow people who obviously aren't going to get in to have a chance to enter another event I think?
I think the online entry system is years and years overdue though. I entered the U47 event I mentioned above online and it was sooo easy and simple to do (and that may well be the reason the cutoff time was so quick?)
Xav |
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the belly
Cat 2 Groupie
Joined: 16 Oct 2007
Posts: 33
Location: hinckley
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| Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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TUCKER...
WHY IS FIRST COME FIRST SERVED STUPID?  WHY GIVE ME A GOOD REASON... I MEAN A GOOD REASON... |
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mattr
World Champ
Joined: 16 Apr 2004
Posts: 12647
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| Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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| the belly wrote: |
TUCKER...
WHY IS FIRST COME FIRST SERVED STUPID? WHY GIVE ME A GOOD REASON... I MEAN A GOOD REASON... |
| mattr wrote: |
| Because then you get a field of organised riders, rather than a field of good riders. |
| Xavier wrote: |
| FCFS would be a ridiculous system for TTs where entry is based on merit. It is a race after all, you should earn your right to ride on fast/popular courses. |
No reason to pick on Tucker....... there are more of us (who have probably done more TTs than Tucker) who know why its a bad idea. |
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the belly
Cat 2 Groupie
Joined: 16 Oct 2007
Posts: 33
Location: hinckley
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| Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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im not picking on anyone.. but theres still not a good reason for not having FCFS...
ORGANISED RIDERS? GOOD RIDERS? WHATS THAT ABOUT.. YOU GO OFF AT MINUTE INTERVALS IN A STRAIGHT OUT AND BACK USUALLY
ITS JUST A FARCE .. I STILL SAY ONLINE ENTRY AND FCFS... YET TO HEAR A GOOD ENOUGH REASON TO BE ANY OTHER WAY.. |
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