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The end of TTing?
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robbo100
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 8:56 am    Post subject: The end of TTing? Reply with quote

After studying Time Trials over the last few year I feel the end is in sight or the sport in its current form.
There have been a number of serious accidents and deaths this year and countless accounts of riders admitting to riding in conditions they felt potentially dangerous in order to gain a fast time.
Despite 'data' to suggest participation has increased you only have to look at many events this year that have attracted very small fields heavily populated by vets with numerous events having only 30-40 finishers.
People seem to want to chase courses, pack events with large numbers and then not DNS if the weather looks like it wont yield a PB. This alone stops others from entering and may lead to even less participation.
Local events have seem to have a very low turnout and for many event organisers this may become unsustainable.
The demographic switch and ageing fields will see very few riders in 10-20 years if the trend continues. A recent example was the Cambridge 25. The event had 24 finishers with only 4 under the age of 40. If the trend (and this is not alone) continues the sport will die out.
It seems that many TT'ers don't want to switch to closed circuits as they are not being dragged along by lorry to fast times they can associate with in the 'noted distances'
The Bleinheim Palace event has 300 riders which is great, many though are not members of clubs and the culture seems more towards the idea of participation and recreation with only a few top riders ever riding.
Should the sport go this way as I feel that many events wont be running in the years to come as the roads become even more crazy and numbers drop?
The recent 'success' of the British Championship cannot hide the fact that only 40 riders finished the main event and less than 20 in the espoirs. There was an equally small junior field and only 3 finished quicker than the winner of the female event.

What is the answer? Let the sport gradually wind up? move over to closed circuits like the Palace event ? Let the police decide its too dangerous to ride after more deaths?
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Lillywhite
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 9:06 am    Post subject: Re: The end of TTing? Reply with quote

robbo100 wrote:
A you only have to look at many events this year that have attracted very small fields heavily populated by vets with numerous events having only 30-40 finishers.


I noticed this trend 10 or so years ago when I was heavily involved with the club scene. I said then that this branch of the sport would die as these vets packed up competing.
I have not been prooved wrong.
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PNuT
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

closed circuits.... how dull Rolling Eyes
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Lee
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I reckon you'd get a beter bite one the testers board...
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mattr
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

its taking long enough. my first club has had to reinvent itself quite significantly over the last few years , used to be a big tt club. 4 or 5 opens a year (at least) and two club TTs a week. Uptake on these got so bad that they are down to one open a year and a couple of club TTs a month.

Club is bigger than ever tho, the MTB section has seen to that.
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KJ
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PNuT wrote:
closed circuits.... how dull Rolling Eyes


Quiet sporting courses instead?
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PNuT
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KJ wrote:

Quiet sporting courses instead?


i dont mind them

http://www.spoco-se.org.uk/2010sheet.htm

http://www.team-cambridge.co.uk/spocoeast/sepos.html

but then i have a reasonable power/weight ratio & can do reasonably well at them...

cant see whats wrong with dragstrip testing either Cool
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Davey C
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the safety thing/fatalities will be the problem for TTing in the near future.
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PNuT
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Laughing
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Dogma Dave
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Davey C wrote:
I think the safety thing/fatalities will be the problem for TTing in the near future.

You and your fatalities, you little minx! Rolling Eyes
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mho
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Davey C wrote:
I think the safety thing/fatalities will be the problem for TTing in the near future.


Has this year been especially bad in competition?

I recall in the mid 80's saying the BAR was an anachronism and wouldn't last. Still suprises me that its still going but it is.
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mattr
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mho wrote:
Davey C wrote:
I think the safety thing/fatalities will be the problem for TTing in the near future.


Has this year been especially bad in competition?

I recall in the mid 80's saying the BAR was an anachronism and wouldn't last. Still suprises me that its still going but it is.
probably still the same people competing
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Davey C
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mho wrote:
Davey C wrote:
I think the safety thing/fatalities will be the problem for TTing in the near future.


Has this year been especially bad in competition?

I recall in the mid 80's saying the BAR was an anachronism and wouldn't last. Still suprises me that its still going but it is.


I don't have statistics or any evidence to hand and as is well documented I'm not a tester but as a lay cyclist it seems to me that there are a number of deaths/collisions in TTing every year. That may be down to increased traffic or whatever. I don't see that going away as long people insist on dragstrip courses. Of course that's just my opinion and an iself confessed, ill informed view of TTing. When you think of the safeguards you must have in place to put on a RR compared to a TT I do wonder whether something has to change.
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John McC
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 8:00 pm    Post subject: Re: The end of TTing? Reply with quote

robbo100 wrote:
After studying Time Trials over the last few year I feel the end is in sight or the sport in its current form.
There have been a number of serious accidents and deaths this year and countless accounts of riders admitting to riding in conditions they felt potentially dangerous in order to gain a fast time.
Despite 'data' to suggest participation has increased you only have to look at many events this year that have attracted very small fields heavily populated by vets with numerous events having only 30-40 finishers.
People seem to want to chase courses, pack events with large numbers and then not DNS if the weather looks like it wont yield a PB. This alone stops others from entering and may lead to even less participation.
Local events have seem to have a very low turnout and for many event organisers this may become unsustainable.
The demographic switch and ageing fields will see very few riders in 10-20 years if the trend continues. A recent example was the Cambridge 25. The event had 24 finishers with only 4 under the age of 40. If the trend (and this is not alone) continues the sport will die out.
It seems that many TT'ers don't want to switch to closed circuits as they are not being dragged along by lorry to fast times they can associate with in the 'noted distances'
The Bleinheim Palace event has 300 riders which is great, many though are not members of clubs and the culture seems more towards the idea of participation and recreation with only a few top riders ever riding.
Should the sport go this way as I feel that many events wont be running in the years to come as the roads become even more crazy and numbers drop?
The recent 'success' of the British Championship cannot hide the fact that only 40 riders finished the main event and less than 20 in the espoirs. There was an equally small junior field and only 3 finished quicker than the winner of the female event.

What is the answer? Let the sport gradually wind up? move over to closed circuits like the Palace event ? Let the police decide its too dangerous to ride after more deaths?

What a loaded post.

Don't know what the answer is, and there is clearly a decline in TTing since when I first competed over 20 years ago.

As far as I can see, most, if not all testers, prefer the exhilaration of speed over the slog of sporting typre courses and will choose faster d/c courses most of the time, and I can't blame them for that, sharing the same preference myself.
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Mr.B
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the decline in testing (assuming it exists) could probably be reversed (also assuming that is desirable!). I know that my old club has made an effort to attract triantelopes after the mid week events almost died off (there were less than 10 of us at some point) and nowadays the midweek events get 40 or 50+ riders and there is barely enough light for everyone to get a ride. no reason that cant be repeated elsewhere I shouldn't think, assuming the tt community is prepared to reach out to non dyed in the wool types...
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Will Scarlet
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are a lot of people who ride time trials who come into the sport in their 30's and 40's. It does actually fit in quite well with family life. You can do well with relatively little training (if you concentrate on quality and short distance TT), races are on saturday evenings or early Sunday mornings meaning you can spend the rest of the day with the family.

events on fast courses are still over subscribed. I don't think the way the sport has developed in the last 20 years is particularly healthy, with the advent of expensive specailist bikes and concentration on fast courses, but it still has plenty of devotees and it won't die anytime soon. It appeals to the cash rich and time poor.

Half the field in our evening 10's is made up of triathletes, providing a ready source of new blood for the sport.
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robbo100
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 4:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for all the responses.
Re Pnuts comments. The sporting courses can be OK but the field size is getting smaller and smaller.
The Rudy Project series (national events) Have such low fields its nuts. I think one of the most recent had less than 10 senior male finishers.

On the front of people coming into the sport later in life? yes they do but and have done for a number of years. The field sizes have been 2,3 if not 4 times greater in similar events in previous years.
I would say by quickly flicking though that I have seen a good 20 events this year that have ~30 finishers.

This event in previous years would be (whilst an association event) have a good string field. 17 entires, 12 finishers

http://cyclingtimetrials.org.uk/Default.aspx?&ge482__geka=8sW2Q7VKZmF8CUWP7ygm7riwpLF
KNCEAIlX03Hp4_FhPDrktfqfkoQzxx15QQk__u1mHvL3
hocSFROAW6IAusA&ge482__gevi=bkosVTEcmXX5ekd
ECVvBmA&gv484__gvac=2&gv484__gvff0=55581&gv4
84__gvfl0=0&language=en-GB&tabid=109

How does that make sense in terms of finance, dragging people out of bed to marshall and provide a stimulus for people to enter next year?
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Billy Boy
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 6:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What's the problem? Leave the testers to it, if it dies it dies, if it doesn't then good for them.

It's all pointless, but that's not the point.
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Davey C
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 7:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PNuT wrote:
Laughing


You laugh but I spent 4 hours marshalling my clubs 25 yesterday and the amount of riders with rear lights on was quite suprising. I don't think they were doing it because they were more aero either.

Also I was suprised at the amount of near misses and bad driving/riding.
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mho
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I seem to recall there are an average of 3 or 4 fatalities a year TT'ing.

Head down riding used to be the major cause but I'd guess that is no longer the case with the more widespread use of helmets.
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