| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Disc brakes are... |
| Not safe, but will use them |
|
0% |
[ 0 ] |
| Not safe, won't use them |
|
26% |
[ 5 ] |
| safe and I will use them |
|
31% |
[ 6 ] |
| safe but I won't use them |
|
42% |
[ 8 ] |
|
| Total Votes : 19 |
|
| Author |
Message |
Plurien
E, Silver
Joined: 09 Dec 2003
Posts: 1966
|
 Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 8:12 am Post subject: Cross organisers' take on new regs |
 |
|
Linked over to the UCI regs from the story on BC website*
| Quote: |
For events where large crowds are expected, on technical parts of the course, a safety area must be provided between the spectators and the course,
The use of dangerous items along the course, such as fencing wire (barbed or otherwise) and metal stakes (including those used for advertising banners) is forbidden. The course must also be routed
away from any item which presents danger to the riders.
5.1.011 The organiser must provide riders with a heated room, showers with hot and cold water and a water supply for cleaning of equipment. These installations must be no more than 2 km from the finish line.
5.1.012 A cyclo-cross course shall include road, country and forest paths and meadowland alternating in such a way as to ensure changes in the pace of the race and allowing riders to recuperate after difficult
sections.
5.1.023 The course may include no more than six man made obstacles. Obstacle shall mean any part of the course which is likely to require riders to dismount.
The length of an obstacle may not exceed 80 metres and the height may not exceed 40 cm. The total length of obstacles may not exceed 10% of the course.
Non-natural sand pits should be minimum 40 metres, maximum 80 metres long and minimum 6 metres wide. The sand pit hould be located on a straight section and requests a level entrance and exit.
5.1.024 The course may include a single section of planks. This obstacle must consist of two planks placed minimum 4 metres and maximum 6 metres apart. The planks must be solid for their entire height and not made of metal. They must have a maximum height of 40 cm and extend the entire width of the course.
In the event that the course is abnormally slippery, the plank section must be removed on the decision of the president of the commissaires' panel in consultation with the organiser and, should he be present, the UCI technical delegate or the cyclo-cross sport coordinator.
5.1.025 The course may pass over bridges or footbridges as long as they are at least 3 metres wide and have protective barriers on both sides. Bridges or footbridges shall be covered with an anti-slip surface (matting, mesh or anti-slip paint).
In addition a separate footbridge for spectators must be provided.
5.1.028 The double pit area (see Appendix 2) is compulsory for UCI world championships, UCI world cup events, continental championships, national championships and events in class 1.
If it is not possible to design a course such that a double pit area as per article 5.1.029 can be set up, the event may only be organised with the prior consent of the cyclo-cross commission to set up two single pits
5.1.034 In double pit areas provision must be made for a water supply for cleaning of equipment. For single pit areas the water supply must be in the immediate proximity such that mechanics do not have to cross the course to access it.
|
Quite a few things for the Trophy and Cat A organisers to account for there - bridges, washing, no restriction to include tarmac, extra line of barriers to separate crowd from course.
Possibly the biggest change for riders, since not many run on now banned 35mm tyres, is to allow disc brakes again. I had thought the move to ban discs was very sensible because those discs get hot enough to burn and are sharp on the edge...?
| Quote: |
| 1.3.025 ... Disc brakes are allowed in cyclo-cross training and competition. |
What's your view? What else could be changed for better or worse?
________________
* http://www.britishcycling.org.uk/cyclocross/article/cyx20100630-Rules-News--Cyclo-Cross-Regs-Update-0
_________________
Tucker: This thread ROCKS! |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Billy Boy
T de F Winner
Joined: 11 Aug 2003
Posts: 30726
Location: Not Aylesbury
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 8:22 am Post subject: |
|
|
Can we have the short version, and then I'll vote? Ta
_________________
"Well done, you are 100% absolutely without a shadow of a doubt spot-bollock-on correct." - Tucker
"Eating is not for wimps" - coal miner
"most of us don't have your brilliance." - John McC |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kingkongsfinger
E, Silver
Joined: 28 May 2005
Posts: 1160
Location: Fred Dibnashire
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 8:31 am Post subject: Re: Cross organisers' take on new regs |
|
|
| Plurien wrote: |
Linked over to the UCI regs from the story on BC website*
Possibly the biggest change for riders, since not many run on now banned 35mm tyres, is to allow disc brakes again. I had thought the move to ban discs was very sensible because those discs get hot enough to burn and are sharp on the edge...?
| Quote: |
| 1.3.025 ... Disc brakes are allowed in cyclo-cross training and competition. |
What's your view? What else could be changed for better or worse?
________________
* http://www.britishcycling.org.uk/cyclocross/article/cyx20100630-Rules-News--Cyclo-Cross-Regs-Update-0 |
You going to ban spectators with flasks of hot water as well !! Get a grip man brake discs do get hot but what are the chances of you burning or cutting yourself on them........Oh loads that why they are banned in all UCI and BCF MTB races/enduros/sportives etc !! 
Are you a 'elf and safety executive ? 
_________________
"I could have done this job myself in five minutes, but as things turned out I had to spend two days trying to find out why it had taken someone else three weeks to do it wrong." |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Des
Moderator
Joined: 19 Apr 2002
Posts: 16900
Location: Harrow
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 8:41 am Post subject: |
|
|
Rim brakes get pretty hot on mountain descents - are we going to ban them?
_________________
www.kentonrc.co.uk |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mattr
World Champ
Joined: 16 Apr 2004
Posts: 12647
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 9:04 am Post subject: Re: Cross organisers' take on new regs |
|
|
| kingkongsfinger wrote: |
You going to ban spectators with flasks of hot water as well !! Get a grip man brake discs do get hot but what are the chances of you burning or cutting yourself on them........Oh loads that why they are banned in all UCI and BCF MTB races/enduros/sportives etc !!
Are you a 'elf and safety executive ? |
The issue with discs in CX is the fact thats its close quarters racing, with dismounts, runs ups and so on. I've been smacked by people waving their bikes around like someone in the final throes of St Vitus dance, add a nice sharp cutting disc (usually nice and hot as you've had to slow for the obstacle) then it starts to get really painful.
(FWIW, Hot water = 100 degs C (max), hot Disc = 250+ deg C. hot enough to get steel to discolour)
And you other examples are (basically) böllöcks, how many times do you get 20 riders getting off for an obstacle in an MTB race, at the same time?
Happens fairly regularly in cross. Like, erm, most laps.
I can only see one reason for allowing discs, one or more of the manufacturers (either bike or component) has been pressurising the UCI.
Either that, of they've heard of too many f**kwits who can't set up cantis. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Plurien
E, Silver
Joined: 09 Dec 2003
Posts: 1966
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 9:04 am Post subject: |
|
|
Er, these are the UCI reg changes, not mine.
If you would care to come round ours I will get the boy to come to a stop in the road on rim brakes and then on discs. You are then warmly invited to touch the metal braking surfaces to see which is the hottest.
We will then spin the wheels up and invite you to press your body against the moving parts in a way which would mimic stumbling into another rider carrying the bike. Up to you which appropriate part of the body you want to 'fess up for said test. (pun intended)
It is quite a change to allow discs again, when they were so promptly banned before.
Other rule changes may or may not be significant. If you don't want to give a view, or don't have one please don't feel obliged to post anything.
_________________
Tucker: This thread ROCKS! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mattr
World Champ
Joined: 16 Apr 2004
Posts: 12647
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 9:05 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Des wrote: |
| Rim brakes get pretty hot on mountain descents - are we going to ban them? |
no, you dont tend to dismount at the bottom. And go for a run. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Des
Moderator
Joined: 19 Apr 2002
Posts: 16900
Location: Harrow
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 9:15 am Post subject: |
|
|
| mattr wrote: |
| Des wrote: |
| Rim brakes get pretty hot on mountain descents - are we going to ban them? |
no, you dont tend to dismount at the bottom. And go for a run. |
Good pint, although Jase (Voodoo) does tend to dismount halfway down. 
_________________
www.kentonrc.co.uk |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Hans Datdodishes
T de F Winner
Joined: 28 Feb 2002
Posts: 28370
Location: On the Superior Forum with the cool kids
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 9:17 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Des wrote: |
| mattr wrote: |
| Des wrote: |
| Rim brakes get pretty hot on mountain descents - are we going to ban them? |
no, you dont tend to dismount at the bottom. And go for a run. |
Good pint, although Jase (Voodoo) does tend to dismount halfway down. |
Boddingtons
_________________
World Masters Drive HillClimb For Taureans Category C Champion 2013.
I'm a qualified coach. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Des
Moderator
Joined: 19 Apr 2002
Posts: 16900
Location: Harrow
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 9:37 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Hans Datdodishes wrote: |
| Des wrote: |
| mattr wrote: |
| Des wrote: |
| Rim brakes get pretty hot on mountain descents - are we going to ban them? |
no, you dont tend to dismount at the bottom. And go for a run. |
Good pint, although Jase (Voodoo) does tend to dismount halfway down. |
Boddingtons |
I mistyped it  , but since when has Boddington's been a good pint?
_________________
www.kentonrc.co.uk |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kingkongsfinger
E, Silver
Joined: 28 May 2005
Posts: 1160
Location: Fred Dibnashire
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 9:49 am Post subject: Re: Cross organisers' take on new regs |
|
|
| mattr wrote: |
| kingkongsfinger wrote: |
You going to ban spectators with flasks of hot water as well !! Get a grip man brake discs do get hot but what are the chances of you burning or cutting yourself on them........Oh loads that why they are banned in all UCI and BCF MTB races/enduros/sportives etc !!
Are you a 'elf and safety executive ? |
The issue with discs in CX is the fact thats its close quarters racing, with dismounts, runs ups and so on. I've been smacked by people waving their bikes around like someone in the final throes of St Vitus dance, add a nice sharp cutting disc (usually nice and hot as you've had to slow for the obstacle) then it starts to get really painful.
(FWIW, Hot water = 100 degs C (max), hot Disc = 250+ deg C. hot enough to get steel to discolour)
And you other examples are (basically) böllöcks, how many times do you get 20 riders getting off for an obstacle in an MTB race, at the same time?
Happens fairly regularly in cross. Like, erm, most laps.
I can only see one reason for allowing discs, one or more of the manufacturers (either bike or component) has been pressurising the UCI.
Either that, of they've heard of too many f**kwits who can't set up cantis. |
Some good points there, I have done a few cross races on a rigid MTB and usually rode up most stuff except steps, never experianced any one shouldering a bike and hitting me with it, although I always end up finishing in the 'teens will do a few more this year on my rigid MTB with discs  so WATCH OUT 
_________________
"I could have done this job myself in five minutes, but as things turned out I had to spend two days trying to find out why it had taken someone else three weeks to do it wrong." |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mattr
World Champ
Joined: 16 Apr 2004
Posts: 12647
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 9:50 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Des wrote: |
| I mistyped it , but since when has Boddington's been a good pint? |
It probably is to closet lager shandy drinkers. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
SMB
Moderator
Joined: 28 Mar 2002
Posts: 5495
Location: Rockaway Beach
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 10:13 am Post subject: Re: Cross organisers' take on new regs |
|
|
| mattr wrote: |
| kingkongsfinger wrote: |
You going to ban spectators with flasks of hot water as well !! Get a grip man brake discs do get hot but what are the chances of you burning or cutting yourself on them........Oh loads that why they are banned in all UCI and BCF MTB races/enduros/sportives etc !!
Are you a 'elf and safety executive ? |
The issue with discs in CX is the fact thats its close quarters racing, with dismounts, runs ups and so on. I've been smacked by people waving their bikes around like someone in the final throes of St Vitus dance, add a nice sharp cutting disc (usually nice and hot as you've had to slow for the obstacle) then it starts to get really painful.
(FWIW, Hot water = 100 degs C (max), hot Disc = 250+ deg C. hot enough to get steel to discolour)
And you other examples are (basically) böllöcks, how many times do you get 20 riders getting off for an obstacle in an MTB race, at the same time?
Happens fairly regularly in cross. Like, erm, most laps.
I can only see one reason for allowing discs, one or more of the manufacturers (either bike or component) has been pressurising the UCI.
Either that, of they've heard of too many f**kwits who can't set up cantis. |
Can't see discs getting overly hot in a Cross, not much sustained braking goes on, no long descents, usually a quick scrub off of top end is needed...it's all about maintaing your momentum not stop starting..
_________________
It never gets easier..you just go faster... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mattr
World Champ
Joined: 16 Apr 2004
Posts: 12647
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 10:31 am Post subject: Re: Cross organisers' take on new regs |
|
|
| SMB wrote: |
| Can't see discs getting overly hot in a Cross, not much sustained braking goes on, no long descents, usually a quick scrub off of top end is needed...it's all about maintaing your momentum not stop starting.. |
Yes, at the top end, what about the *CENSORED*öcks who can barely ride a bike, you know, those flailing around with their bikes at the back of the field, getting lapped.
Front of the field = don't need discs
Back of the field = shouldn't be allowed to have discs. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kingkongsfinger
E, Silver
Joined: 28 May 2005
Posts: 1160
Location: Fred Dibnashire
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 10:51 am Post subject: Re: Cross organisers' take on new regs |
|
|
| mattr wrote: |
| SMB wrote: |
| Can't see discs getting overly hot in a Cross, not much sustained braking goes on, no long descents, usually a quick scrub off of top end is needed...it's all about maintaing your momentum not stop starting.. |
Yes, at the top end, what about the *CENSORED*öcks who can barely ride a bike, you know, those flailing around with their bikes at the back of the field, getting lapped.
Front of the field = don't need discs
Back of the field = shouldn't be allowed to have discs. |
Middle of the field = Ok with discs on MTB (as only using it has training, and would not be at the front on a MTB unless called Lars)
_________________
"I could have done this job myself in five minutes, but as things turned out I had to spend two days trying to find out why it had taken someone else three weeks to do it wrong." |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Pete Mooney
E, Silver
Joined: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 811
Location: Hanging on to Dudley Busser Halfway between Hell and back!
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 11:40 am Post subject: |
|
|
Changes not a problem  not interested in putting extra weight on my bikes with discs. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Billy Boy
T de F Winner
Joined: 11 Aug 2003
Posts: 30726
Location: Not Aylesbury
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 11:48 am Post subject: |
|
|
Wouldn't you only really be able to use cable discs anyway with STIs / Ergos?
_________________
"Well done, you are 100% absolutely without a shadow of a doubt spot-bollock-on correct." - Tucker
"Eating is not for wimps" - coal miner
"most of us don't have your brilliance." - John McC |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Plurien
E, Silver
Joined: 09 Dec 2003
Posts: 1966
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 12:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
MTB STis were supposed to be the way forwards once, but it didn't work out that way so there are lots of hydraulic brake STis £available but they are for flat-bars.
Don't suppose it will be long before the usual brands come up with cross-specific offerings on their STis...
Di2 buttons on a hydraulic lever, for instance - That should be cheap as chips - Not!
_________________
Tucker: This thread ROCKS! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mattr
World Champ
Joined: 16 Apr 2004
Posts: 12647
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 1:49 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Fatboys dont fly wrote: |
| Has anyone actually had an injury from banging into a disc brake during a mtb race? |
There have been a (small) handful, but its not generally congested close bunch racing, i wouldn't expect there to be many. (FWIW I touched one lightly in a race last year left a nice burn mark and a couple of scrapes, i wouldn't even call it an injury)
As for levers, just use cable discs.
The weight will be the killer, need bigger forks, stronger wheels, upgraded frame (thicker stays + mounts) plus the cable discs aren't exactly light. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Plurien
E, Silver
Joined: 09 Dec 2003
Posts: 1966
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 2:47 pm Post subject: |
|
|
If anyone's interested in doing a disc build, what am I bid for a Crosslight Pro with disc mounts F + R ? !
Silver w the orangey lettering out of black in a 52cm C-C. Lightly used, nothing in the way of chainscrape or wheel rub. BB is out and shell is clean. Mech hanger is A1.
While I'm on, I also have 2 Trek Alpha XO1s, the blue ones with sensible rear stays, not the boxy black ones that were awful. Small/med frames come with both the original Al forks and carbon 'Muddy' ones for both. These frames ridden to more national podiums than you could imagine and still going strong. proof that you don't have to have this year's model to be competitive (but being smaller than 5'7" will help you get along with these ones...)
This is a busy time for cross bike builds. Join the frenzy!
_________________
Tucker: This thread ROCKS! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
