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Tucker
Tour Winner
Joined: 03 May 2006
Posts: 15722
Location: Swindon
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 Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 8:44 pm Post subject: Re: Climbing out of the saddle |
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| MattB94 wrote: |
Your efficiency goes down by 20%  |
My god, I wonder how fast Pantani would have gone up Alpe d'Huez if he'd known this. |
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special guest star
Div 1 Pro
Joined: 23 Oct 2003
Posts: 6939
Location: waiting to jump/going down with pedals on fire
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| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 8:45 pm Post subject: Re: Climbing out of the saddle.. |
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| JONNO wrote: |
I read that it's not as economical as dragging yourself up a climb sitting down, in the LVRC magazine a while back. But surely if you are in the same gear going at the same pace you use the same energy either way? Is it not just a case of if you are not used to climbing out of the saddle you are using untrained muscles, a bit like someone who has never done any sprint training being expected to win a devil take the hindmost? I'm interested because I have always felt more comfortable getting up as soon as it starts getting a bit steeper than trying to grind it out.  |
i won 6 dev t hind on the run at a a trak league and i cand sprint or spell |
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special guest star
Div 1 Pro
Joined: 23 Oct 2003
Posts: 6939
Location: waiting to jump/going down with pedals on fire
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| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 8:57 pm Post subject: Re: Stand or Sit |
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| cjdjustride wrote: |
A recent study concluded that the optimum transition point from seated to standing on a climb is at 94% of your power output at maximal oxygen uptake. This was a lab study and it has been suggested that when wind and road surface are taken into consideration the figure could indeed be even higher. Now not many of us have the luxury of a max power at max oxygen uptake figure to work with but what we can take from this study is that if you are looking for efficiency you should stay seated for longer than we probably think.
Of course, all this theory is great but unless you train those ' seated climbing' muscles you'll never be as good as you could be!! |
eh? |
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Chrissylaa
E, Gold
Joined: 17 Apr 2009
Posts: 3382
Location: On a hillside desolate.
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| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 12:29 am Post subject: |
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Contador surely needs to be a VR
The fool is often seen out of the saddle!!! |
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JONNO
Div 1 Pro
Joined: 24 Jul 2006
Posts: 9031
Location: Up North
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| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 9:32 am Post subject: |
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Actcherally, I think I've worked it out....
Fat barsteward = Will never get up hills in or out of the saddle.
I realised this in a flash of divine inspiration when five minutes off the back going up a reasonably long but not particularly steep hill in some distress a couple of weeks ago. 
_________________
I was being chased by a police dog last week, and made the mistake of trying to escape through a little tunnel, over a see-saw and through a hoop of fire. It finally caught me as I was weaving in and out of some sticks. |
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eastway82
Div 3 Pro
Joined: 20 Nov 2006
Posts: 3965
Location: Normandy, France
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| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 2:11 pm Post subject: Re: Climbing out of the saddle.. |
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| JONNO wrote: |
But say I'm just climbing in the bunch and feel like standing up? Not going any faster, just using different muscle groups, is this less efficient if you are used to doing it? |
If it makes you happy, that's fine. So long as you know how to get out of the saddle without reversing a bike length or so in relation to the bloke on your wheel, you might even stay upright.
As to the original question, I suppose it depends whether the hill in question is a sprinter's climb, in which case you're going to be powering over it at a high proportion of your peak power, or a long climb where you need to be working within your aerobic limits. For the latter I'd say sitting down's better, unless you're in the process of attacking/accelerating.
But then I'm crap at hills, so I should probably get me coat. |
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GZA
E, Silver
Joined: 27 Feb 2004
Posts: 921
Location: Chilterns
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 11:27 am Post subject: |
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J Sports Sci. 2008 Jul;26(9):977-84.
Seated versus standing position for maximization of performance during intense uphill cycling.
Hansen EA, Waldeland H.
Department of Physical Performance, Norwegian School of Sport Sciences, Oslo, Norway. ernst.albin.hansen@nih.no
It is not known whether the seated or standing position favours performance during intensive bouts of uphill cycling. The following hypotheses were therefore tested: (1) the standing position results in better performance at a high power output, while (2) the seated position is best at a moderate power output. We also assessed the seated-standing transition intensity, above which seated cycling should be superseded by standing cycling for maximization of performance. Ten male cyclists (mean age 27 years, s = 3; height 1.82 m, s = 0.07; body mass 75.2 kg, s = 7.0; VO2max 70.0 ml.kg(-1).min(-1), s = 5.2) performed seated and standing treadmill cycling to exhaustion at 10% grade and at four power outputs ranging from 86% to 165% of their power output at maximal oxygen uptake (Wmax). Power output at maximal oxygen uptake was obtained during determination of VO2max. There was no difference in time to exhaustion between the two cycling positions at 86% of Wmax (P = 0.29). All participants performed best at the highest power output (165% of Wmax) when standing (P = 0.002). An overall seated-standing transition intensity of 94% of Wmax was identified. Thus, in general, cyclists may choose either the standing or seated position for maximization of performance at a submaximal intensity of 86% of Wmax, while the standing position should be used at intensities above 94% of Wmax and approaching 165% of Wmax. |
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Chrissylaa
E, Gold
Joined: 17 Apr 2009
Posts: 3382
Location: On a hillside desolate.
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Tucker
Tour Winner
Joined: 03 May 2006
Posts: 15722
Location: Swindon
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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| GZA wrote: |
J Sports Sci. 2008 Jul;26(9):977-84.
Seated versus standing position for maximization of performance during intense uphill cycling.
Hansen EA, Waldeland H.
Department of Physical Performance, Norwegian School of Sport Sciences, Oslo, Norway. ernst.albin.hansen@nih.no
It is not known whether the seated or standing position favours performance during intensive bouts of uphill cycling. The following hypotheses were therefore tested: (1) the standing position results in better performance at a high power output, while (2) the seated position is best at a moderate power output. We also assessed the seated-standing transition intensity, above which seated cycling should be superseded by standing cycling for maximization of performance. Ten male cyclists (mean age 27 years, s = 3; height 1.82 m, s = 0.07; body mass 75.2 kg, s = 7.0; VO2max 70.0 ml.kg(-1).min(-1), s = 5.2) performed seated and standing treadmill cycling to exhaustion at 10% grade and at four power outputs ranging from 86% to 165% of their power output at maximal oxygen uptake (Wmax). Power output at maximal oxygen uptake was obtained during determination of VO2max. There was no difference in time to exhaustion between the two cycling positions at 86% of Wmax (P = 0.29). All participants performed best at the highest power output (165% of Wmax) when standing (P = 0.002). An overall seated-standing transition intensity of 94% of Wmax was identified. Thus, in general, cyclists may choose either the standing or seated position for maximization of performance at a submaximal intensity of 86% of Wmax, while the standing position should be used at intensities above 94% of Wmax and approaching 165% of Wmax. |
That's fairly conclusive then. To sum up, it doesn't matter unless you are gunning it, in which case you should stand up. Simple. |
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DNAse
E, Gold
Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 2414
Location: Oxfordshire
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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We had a lecturer the image of him at University, except our one wore sandles year-round. 
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"Train?! Training is for people with no natural ability!" |
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