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| Whats the best tactics to employ during a road race |
| Go with every attack |
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7% |
[ 5 ] |
| Only go with the winning attack |
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53% |
[ 34 ] |
| Only go with every third attack |
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7% |
[ 5 ] |
| Don't attack, wait for bunch sprint |
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12% |
[ 8 ] |
| Don't attack, sit at back thinking of a good excuse for being crap |
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17% |
[ 11 ] |
| Pretend its a TT and sit at the front then get wasted in the sprint |
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1% |
[ 1 ] |
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| Total Votes : 64 |
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Roy Gardiner
T de F Winner
Joined: 14 Jul 2003
Posts: 21249
Location: London and Essex
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 Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Billy Boy wrote: |
| Roy Gardiner wrote: |
| Billy Boy wrote: |
| Richard Lodge wrote: |
Example - Tour of the Reservoir last weekend
Break goes early with 4 ReCyclings (none left behind) and 2 Planet X's (but Mark Lovatt chasing behind) - would you expect Planet X's to work/sit on/something else ?
I wasn't there so I don't know what they actually did, nor whether they knew how strong/weak Mark Lovatt might be on the day? Only info I have is the report in Cycling Weekly. |
You'd expect them to work. They'd rather be in a break than in a bunch and take their chances. |
Sit in.
It can't get better for the 4 ReCyclings; if they got away with no company at all, then the whole bunch would be chasing them. They will work hard to stay away, whether or not anyone's with them. Then when they're assured of staying away they'll start working the Planet Xs over, so the Planet Xs need to save their strength. |
Sit in and the Recyclings would start attacking, one after the other making the Planet X's bring them back every time...
Better to get to the sharp end of the race before playing games. |
So you've now argued both sides; if they work, as you first proposed, the Recyclings will attack one after the other (or whatever 'working over' tactic they muster) anyway, and the Xs will be weaker for having worked. Recyclings will of course not start the one-after-the-other attacking until they are assured of staying away to the end.
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Billy Boy
T de F Winner
Joined: 11 Aug 2003
Posts: 30726
Location: Not Aylesbury
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| Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 1:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Roy Gardiner wrote: |
| Billy Boy wrote: |
| Roy Gardiner wrote: |
| Billy Boy wrote: |
| Richard Lodge wrote: |
Example - Tour of the Reservoir last weekend
Break goes early with 4 ReCyclings (none left behind) and 2 Planet X's (but Mark Lovatt chasing behind) - would you expect Planet X's to work/sit on/something else ?
I wasn't there so I don't know what they actually did, nor whether they knew how strong/weak Mark Lovatt might be on the day? Only info I have is the report in Cycling Weekly. |
You'd expect them to work. They'd rather be in a break than in a bunch and take their chances. |
Sit in.
It can't get better for the 4 ReCyclings; if they got away with no company at all, then the whole bunch would be chasing them. They will work hard to stay away, whether or not anyone's with them. Then when they're assured of staying away they'll start working the Planet Xs over, so the Planet Xs need to save their strength. |
Sit in and the Recyclings would start attacking, one after the other making the Planet X's bring them back every time...
Better to get to the sharp end of the race before playing games. |
So you've now argued both sides; if they work, as you first proposed, the Recyclings will attack one after the other (or whatever 'working over' tactic they muster) anyway, and the Xs will be weaker for having worked. Recyclings will of course not start the one-after-the-other attacking until they are assured of staying away to the end. |
If they work they will stay away, if they don't it makes that much harder.
The odd's are against them how ever you look at it so the best bet is to work and opimise the chances of the best placing possible. Sitting in is a 3/J tactic in this scenario. If there was only one of them then they'd sit in.
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Chr!s B.
E, Silver
Joined: 07 Jan 2004
Posts: 1967
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| Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 3:18 pm Post subject: |
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You forgot the 'average third cat' tactic and 'attack everytime you can see your family'.. 
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Stuart
Moderator
Joined: 12 Dec 2002
Posts: 16263
Location: Thorne
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| Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 3:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Chr!s B. wrote: |
| You forgot the 'average third cat' tactic and 'attack everytime you can see your family'.. |
Shushy! That's a secret!
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Will Scarlet
E, Silver
Joined: 31 Dec 2002
Posts: 1734
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| Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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Seems to me the best tactic is to pick the potential winners and follow them. If they go with a break, you go with it.
Round here, if you follow Scott Gamble around, you'll be there or thereabouts at the finish. |
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SMB
Moderator
Joined: 28 Mar 2002
Posts: 5495
Location: Rockaway Beach
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| Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 8:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Will Scarlet wrote: |
Seems to me the best tactic is to pick the potential winners and follow them. If they go with a break, you go with it.
Round here, if you follow Scott Gamble around, you'll be there or thereabouts at the finish. |
If you can!!
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Matt Clinton
Div 1 Pro
Joined: 12 Oct 2004
Posts: 7868
Location: rarely logging in.
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| Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Will Scarlet wrote: |
Seems to me the best tactic is to pick the potential winners and follow them. If they go with a break, you go with it.
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That's what I tend to do. Doesn't really work though. 
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stretch armstrong
Div 3 Pro
Joined: 14 Apr 2003
Posts: 4350
Location: Doncaster (sleaze capital o the north)
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| Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 9:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Roy Gardiner wrote: |
| Billy Boy wrote: |
| Roy Gardiner wrote: |
| Billy Boy wrote: |
| Richard Lodge wrote: |
Example - Tour of the Reservoir last weekend
Break goes early with 4 ReCyclings (none left behind) and 2 Planet X's (but Mark Lovatt chasing behind) - would you expect Planet X's to work/sit on/something else ?
I wasn't there so I don't know what they actually did, nor whether they knew how strong/weak Mark Lovatt might be on the day? Only info I have is the report in Cycling Weekly. |
You'd expect them to work. They'd rather be in a break than in a bunch and take their chances. |
Sit in.
It can't get better for the 4 ReCyclings; if they got away with no company at all, then the whole bunch would be chasing them. They will work hard to stay away, whether or not anyone's with them. Then when they're assured of staying away they'll start working the Planet Xs over, so the Planet Xs need to save their strength. |
Sit in and the Recyclings would start attacking, one after the other making the Planet X's bring them back every time...
Better to get to the sharp end of the race before playing games. |
So you've now argued both sides; if they work, as you first proposed, the Recyclings will attack one after the other (or whatever 'working over' tactic they muster) anyway, and the Xs will be weaker for having worked. Recyclings will of course not start the one-after-the-other attacking until they are assured of staying away to the end. |
 by crikey you lot don't arf overcomplicate things!
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Putting the dross back in Clay Cross (RT) |
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Thomo
Div 1 Pro
Joined: 20 Dec 2002
Posts: 6964
Location: Milton Keynes (home) Hemel Hempstead (work)
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| Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 10:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Billy Boy wrote: |
| Roy Gardiner wrote: |
| Billy Boy wrote: |
| Roy Gardiner wrote: |
| Billy Boy wrote: |
| Richard Lodge wrote: |
Example - Tour of the Reservoir last weekend
Break goes early with 4 ReCyclings (none left behind) and 2 Planet X's (but Mark Lovatt chasing behind) - would you expect Planet X's to work/sit on/something else ?
I wasn't there so I don't know what they actually did, nor whether they knew how strong/weak Mark Lovatt might be on the day? Only info I have is the report in Cycling Weekly. |
You'd expect them to work. They'd rather be in a break than in a bunch and take their chances. |
Sit in.
It can't get better for the 4 ReCyclings; if they got away with no company at all, then the whole bunch would be chasing them. They will work hard to stay away, whether or not anyone's with them. Then when they're assured of staying away they'll start working the Planet Xs over, so the Planet Xs need to save their strength. |
Sit in and the Recyclings would start attacking, one after the other making the Planet X's bring them back every time...
Better to get to the sharp end of the race before playing games. |
So you've now argued both sides; if they work, as you first proposed, the Recyclings will attack one after the other (or whatever 'working over' tactic they muster) anyway, and the Xs will be weaker for having worked. Recyclings will of course not start the one-after-the-other attacking until they are assured of staying away to the end. |
If they work they will stay away, if they don't it makes that much harder.
The odd's are against them how ever you look at it so the best bet is to work and opimise the chances of the best placing possible. Sitting in is a 3/J tactic in this scenario. If there was only one of them then they'd sit in. |
Of course the other option here is to attack the Recycling team - make them chase, despite the greater odds...
Paul
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sachs huret
Cat 1 Groupie
Joined: 26 Jun 2004
Posts: 121
Location: Perth, stralya
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| Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 4:57 am Post subject: |
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| Stuart wrote: |
| qcscmh wrote: |
| Stuart wrote: |
| qcscmh wrote: |
| sachs huret wrote: |
| My favourite tactic is to hang on for as long as possible and hope I make it to the line without getting involved in a bingle in the sprint. Can't think of a single time when I've had enough strength and energy to actually seriously consider putting in an attack! |
but surely if you ride ths same way all the time, thats what you are training yourself to do ! Try attacking - you never know |
I agree |
Can you sprint ? how many gallops have you won ? |
I was agreeing with your point about varying your approach to racing. Doesn't matter  |
I think you guys are making the common assumption that I am a lot fitter than I actually am. Underneath the cool, calm untroubled exterior I am actually in a whole world of pain just trying to grab a wheel as the next move goes off!! Perhaps if I did a bit of that new fangled training stuff I have read so much about then things might be different...
To be honest though, a lot of people complain about others sitting in on races, but in my experience the vast majority of riders sitting in are doing it because they are taking a severe hammering and don't fancy a 20 mile ride on their own to the finish. For me, with my current level of fitness, it's not about winning - it's just the achievement of getting to the finish with the first group that makes it worthwhile.
Racing tomorrow though, if I feel good enough to make a move then I'll let you know how I went.
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qcscmh
World Champ
Joined: 06 Jun 2002
Posts: 14071
Location: Not on the Bike
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| Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 2:23 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="sachs huret"]
| Stuart wrote: |
| qcscmh wrote: |
| Stuart wrote: |
| qcscmh wrote: |
| sachs huret wrote: |
| My favourite tactic is to hang on for as long as possible and hope I make it to the line without getting involved in a bingle in the sprint. Can't think of a single time when I've had enough strength and energy to actually seriously consider putting in an attack! |
but surely if you ride ths same way all the time, thats what you are training yourself to do ! Try attacking - you never know |
I agree |
Can you sprint ? how many gallops have you won ? |
I was agreeing with your point about varying your approach to racing. Doesn't matter |
Stuart, the question was not aimed at you, although may have appeared that way. |
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Lee
World Champ
Joined: 12 Jul 2002
Posts: 12612
Location: Hertfordshire
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| Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 2:38 pm Post subject: |
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I have a quite unique style of attacking, I go slower than the main bunch, never fails, usually get a nice solo break, occassionally the odd one cottons on and uses the same tactic as me but more often than not I'm on my own. Never get in the plcings though........
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| Tucker wrote: |
| But, on reflection, you're probably right... |
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RussM
E, Silver
Joined: 29 Apr 2004
Posts: 979
Location: Lancs
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| Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 10:55 pm Post subject: |
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In a crit your clubmate has a good gap with 2 laps to go!
Another club mate is riding as a mate - steady away on the front of the bunch which aren't closing the gap!
Another club mate then proceeds to Attack down the outside and spurs the bunch into action! 
And then says after - "Well it's ok the bunch were closing the gap!"  
Anyone see any articles about riding as a 'team' anywhere????   |
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kitch
E, Bronze
Joined: 11 Nov 2004
Posts: 426
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| Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2005 12:32 am Post subject: |
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hate to say it but riding as a team is for people who get paid to ride as a team...
for the rest of us i think every man for himself is a forgivable tactic! |
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sachs huret
Cat 1 Groupie
Joined: 26 Jun 2004
Posts: 121
Location: Perth, stralya
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| Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2005 8:32 am Post subject: |
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| sachs huret wrote: |
| Stuart wrote: |
| qcscmh wrote: |
| Stuart wrote: |
| qcscmh wrote: |
| sachs huret wrote: |
| My favourite tactic is to hang on for as long as possible and hope I make it to the line without getting involved in a bingle in the sprint. Can't think of a single time when I've had enough strength and energy to actually seriously consider putting in an attack! |
but surely if you ride ths same way all the time, thats what you are training yourself to do ! Try attacking - you never know |
I agree |
Can you sprint ? how many gallops have you won ? |
I was agreeing with your point about varying your approach to racing. Doesn't matter |
Racing tomorrow though, if I feel good enough to make a move then I'll let you know how I went. |
Well guys, managed to get in a break with another rider today - it ended up that we were out the front for about 5 - 10 mins of a 45 min crit. We went with about 30mins of racing left to go which was tactically a bit daft but it made for an interesting race.
With one lap to go there were 2 guys about 50m up the road so, sensing it was the last chance to get up I thought I'd try to jump across to them and make a break for home. I felt like Bradley McGee for about 20 seconds and, just as I was about to catch them, blew up quite spectacularly which I understand led to momentary panic at several seismic monitoring stations around the world.
What have I learnt from today? Firstly, I definitely do not have the talent of Bradley McGee and secondly I should maybe plan the timing of the attacks just a teensy bit better! Still, it was definitely entertaining and weird to be in a a race where I wasn't hanging on to wheels with all the strength I could muster!!
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Its hard to roar like a lion when you've got chicken legs |
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Chris L' Evêque
E, Gold
Joined: 03 Oct 2004
Posts: 3466
Location: Syria
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| Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2005 8:47 am Post subject: |
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| kitch wrote: |
hate to say it but riding as a team is for people who get paid to ride as a team...
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Why? |
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Andrew Jackson
E, Gold
Joined: 06 Jan 2004
Posts: 3128
Location: Barton under Needwood
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| Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2005 9:25 am Post subject: |
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Rode at Darley Moor (AGAIN, MOAN) yesterday and with four riders in the Elite race could ride as a team. After the initial attacks, making sure that an Ashfield rider was either attacking or counter attacking, two Ashfield lads got moving in an eight man break. The other two Ashfield riders could then go with every counter attack and sit on hoping for a tow across to the break. As it happened the break split but stayed away and I got in a chasing group and because we weren't going to get across did my share of work. The end result was that we had two riders in the top ten with another sprinting for 8th. I would never chase down a club mate and would expect the same in return.
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qcscmh
World Champ
Joined: 06 Jun 2002
Posts: 14071
Location: Not on the Bike
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| Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2005 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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| My tactics today in a 100 man field was to sit at the back and let a break of 10 go, then another break of 18 go. |
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Mat Gregory
E, Silver
Joined: 03 Jul 2003
Posts: 717
Location: birmingham
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| Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2005 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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| kitch wrote: |
hate to say it but riding as a team is for people who get paid to ride as a team...
for the rest of us i think every man for himself is a forgivable tactic! |
indeed , no point letting some other sucker from your club take all the prize money.
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IainW
E, Silver
Joined: 27 May 2003
Posts: 1996
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| Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2005 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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| RussM wrote: |
In a crit your clubmate has a good gap with 2 laps to go!
Another club mate is riding as a mate - steady away on the front of the bunch which aren't closing the gap!
Another club mate then proceeds to Attack down the outside and spurs the bunch into action!
And then says after - "Well it's ok the bunch were closing the gap!"
Anyone see any articles about riding as a 'team' anywhere???? |
Classic muppet racing. Good to watch though!
Smartest tactic I've seen was for 2 team mates to go a couple of miles up the road before the start, wait for the race just as the early break is about to form and jump in on it.
Pity only one rider complained as the chief comm was totally unaware of it. |
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