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Lee
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Joined: 12 Jul 2002
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Location: Hertfordshire
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 Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 8:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Hans Datdodishes wrote: |
| No excuses and no exceptions, any cyclist who runs a red light gives everyone else on a bike a bad name through their moronic actions |
So do you judge all drivers by the idiots that speed or drink drive?
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| Tucker wrote: |
| But, on reflection, you're probably right... |
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Hans Datdodishes
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Joined: 28 Feb 2002
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Location: On the Superior Forum with the cool kids
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| Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Lee wrote: |
| Hans Datdodishes wrote: |
| No excuses and no exceptions, any cyclist who runs a red light gives everyone else on a bike a bad name through their moronic actions |
So do you judge all drivers by the idiots that speed or drink drive? |
cyclists are a minority Lee, and we get judged by the actions of the few morons amongst us
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nettie biker
Div 3 Pro
Joined: 29 Jun 2006
Posts: 3742
Location: Struggling to keep all the balls in the air.............
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| Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 11:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Hans Datdodishes wrote: |
| Lee wrote: |
| Hans Datdodishes wrote: |
| No excuses and no exceptions, any cyclist who runs a red light gives everyone else on a bike a bad name through their moronic actions |
So do you judge all drivers by the idiots that speed or drink drive? |
cyclists are a minority Lee, and we get judged by the actions of the few morons amongst us |
speak for yourself 
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JimmyRay
E, Silver
Joined: 14 Jul 2004
Posts: 1838
Location: Exeter
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| Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 11:25 pm Post subject: |
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I changed jobs at the start of the year and I am wrestling with the lights right now. So far I am sticking to the rules, but to put in perspective, I have 27 sets of lights to go through in just under 4 miles.
This is bad enough, but the shortest and safest route to the office uses a cut through which the local autorities in their wisdom have discouraged motorists using (in favour of the by pass) by setting the priority of the lights agsint the cut through. It can take 5 mins to travel about 500 metres.
Now, I am only in the 2nd week but unless I find an alternative route I'll be jumping lights anytime soon.
As with speed limits, if the highways authority want people to observe the rules, apply them in a reasonable way. |
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alexc
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Joined: 24 Jul 2003
Posts: 5192
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| Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 1:32 am Post subject: |
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| Hans Datdodishes wrote: |
| No excuses and no exceptions, any cyclist who runs a red light gives everyone else on a bike a bad name through their moronic actions |
Spoken like a true rep.
and! I would rather have a bad name than one with RIP after it, you f@ckwit. I dont give a f@ck what kind of a name cyclists have so long as I am okay at the end of the day.
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Roy Gardiner
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| Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 7:44 am Post subject: |
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| JimmyRay wrote: |
| I changed jobs at the start of the year and I am wrestling with the lights right now. So far I am sticking to the rules, but to put in perspective, I have 27 sets of lights to go through in just under 4 miles. |
 One every 260 yards, roughly. Isn't there an alternative route?
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Hans Datdodishes
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| Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:20 am Post subject: |
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| alexc wrote: |
| Hans Datdodishes wrote: |
| No excuses and no exceptions, any cyclist who runs a red light gives everyone else on a bike a bad name through their moronic actions |
Spoken like a true rep.
and! I would rather have a bad name than one with RIP after it, you f@ckwit. I dont give a f@ck what kind of a name cyclists have so long as I am okay at the end of the day. |
You'll be bragging how you break the speed limit when you drive next, cos its safer.
Running red lights is moronic.
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Roy Gardiner
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| Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:22 am Post subject: |
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| Hans Datdodishes wrote: |
| Running red lights is moronic. |
OK we have your opinion, care to give some reasoning? I have already outlined at length why IMO it's sometimes justified to carry on in spite of red lights.
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Hans Datdodishes
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| Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:32 am Post subject: |
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| Roy Gardiner wrote: |
| Hans Datdodishes wrote: |
| Running red lights is moronic. |
OK we have your opinion, care to give some reasoning? I have already outlined at length why IMO it's sometimes justified to carry on in spite of red lights. |
A red light is asking you to stop, giving someone/something else the right of way. Simple.
Running a red light gives all cyclists a bad rep in the eyes of the greater population, and creates ill-feeling towards cyclists and just encourages the talk of further legislation against cyclists.
I've met you Roy, you certainly aren't a stupid man, I've met Lee, he isn't stupid either, never met the carpet salesman so can't comment on him but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, but running red lights, riding on pavements, riding the wrong way down one way streets etc is moronic, and if three - what I would class as 'proper' and sensible - cyclists blatantly disregard the rules of the road and ride in such a moronic manner, then we're going to remain as unpopular as white van man on the roads.
Give respect, earn respect.
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walleyes
E, Bronze
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:41 am Post subject: |
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| Hans Datdodishes wrote: |
| Lee wrote: |
| Hans Datdodishes wrote: |
| No excuses and no exceptions, any cyclist who runs a red light gives everyone else on a bike a bad name through their moronic actions |
So do you judge all drivers by the idiots that speed or drink drive? |
cyclists are a minority Lee, and we get judged by the actions of the few morons amongst us |
I completely agree with Hans on this, why do you think we get so much abuse? Because the average dail hate reader thinks we're ALL ar****es.
That is because despite the success at the Olympics and subsequent positive publicity, unfortunately we ARE a minority like it or not. |
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Roy Gardiner
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| Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:48 am Post subject: |
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I understand Hans, walleyes and the others, and in principle agree with what you say, that we should obey the law if only as PR.
But when obeying the law makes it more dangerous (for others as well as just me) then, hey, too bad. It's the one circumstance -- all cars stopped -- that I break the lights law.
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John McC
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Joined: 14 Jul 2003
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Location: Leafy Barnet
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| Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 10:08 am Post subject: |
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| Roy Gardiner wrote: |
I understand Hans, walleyes and the others, and in principle agree with what you say, that we should obey the law if only as PR.
But when obeying the law makes it more dangerous (for others as well as just me) then, hey, too bad. It's the one circumstance -- all cars stopped -- that I break the lights law. |
So if it is more dangerous to go through when green, why don't you stop when green and wait until it is red then. Roy, unusually for you, you make no sense.
Personally, the notion that it is dangerous to pass a green signal when turning left or right at a junction, I find absolutely ridiculous.
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mattr
World Champ
Joined: 16 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 10:17 am Post subject: |
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| John McC wrote: |
| Personally, the notion that it is dangerous to pass a green signal when turning left or right at a junction, I find absolutely ridiculous. |
It's just a matter of experience with traffic filtering, and by that i mean learning from it, not just doing it lots of times.
Its amazing how bad some peoples road positioning is, and how they behave around other traffic (both cyclists and drivers).
When it comes down to it, if you are in the right place at the right time doing the right thing, turning either way at traffic lights is not difficult.
Only people who haven't seen you or those who want to hit you will put you in danger. The first group are easy to avoid (positioning) the second, well, they'll just wait and run you off the road after the lights if you go thro the red.
I just hate the lights that can't detect you. All lights here are triggered. None are just timed. So you have to ride over the sensor loop several times! |
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Roy Gardiner
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| Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 10:22 am Post subject: |
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| John McC wrote: |
| Personally, the notion that it is dangerous to pass a green signal when turning left or right at a junction, I find absolutely ridiculous. |
Turning right: you have cars behind you trying to do the same thing, you have cars coming towards you. You, as you know, have to be 100% alert to their stupidity/impatience/aggression.
Turning left: no problem, as you say.
Going straight on: cars left-turning you, cars coming towards you turning right.
Cars vs. no cars. Easy really.
Hypothetical: let us say that the law were amended to allow 'proceed with caution, max speed 6mph' for the situation I describe (X-roads), and magically an amber bicycle-outline light appears on all such traffic lights, would you then agree that it would obviously be safer to proceed when all the cars are stationary?
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John McC
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| Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 10:24 am Post subject: |
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I'm surprised you commute by bike at all, Royston.
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Hans Datdodishes
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| Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 10:24 am Post subject: |
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Red light = stop. Its that easy.
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Lee
World Champ
Joined: 12 Jul 2002
Posts: 12612
Location: Hertfordshire
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| Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 10:27 am Post subject: |
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| John McC wrote: |
| Roy Gardiner wrote: |
I understand Hans, walleyes and the others, and in principle agree with what you say, that we should obey the law if only as PR.
But when obeying the law makes it more dangerous (for others as well as just me) then, hey, too bad. It's the one circumstance -- all cars stopped -- that I break the lights law. |
So if it is more dangerous to go through when green, why don't you stop when green and wait until it is red then. Roy, unusually for you, you make no sense.
Personally, the notion that it is dangerous to pass a green signal when turning left or right at a junction, I find absolutely ridiculous. |
It's not that it's more dangerous on green, it's dangerous going at the point the lights change from red to green, on some junctions.
And the scenario that I have said with the one way. I can turn right ride 100 metres the wrong way down a one way street, there will be no cars coming towards me as there are traffic lights at the end, pull onto the pavement dismount and cross a main road via a crossing taking me to my front door. Or I can turn left, then turn right crossing 2 lanes of traffic, then right again, into a fairly fast moving flow of traffic where I need to be in the outside lane of three for a few hundred metres. Then I turn right onto a main road and have to stop in the road outside my flat. Sorry it's a no brainer.
Hans, Wallseyes, I understand your viewpoint, as does Roy from his earlier post and I'm sure so does Alex, but frankly I will judge what I consider riskier, because if I get wiped out doing something I perceive to be dangerous, I know that if you tell Mel afterwards that as sad as it is at least I wasn't making the general public think cyclists are all irresponsible ar5eholes she probably won't find too much comfort in that, and I'm pretty sure that that would go for Alex and Roy's families as well.
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| But, on reflection, you're probably right... |
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Roy Gardiner
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Location: London and Essex
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| Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 10:28 am Post subject: |
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| mattr wrote: |
| Only people who haven't seen you or those who want to hit you will put you in danger. The first group are easy to avoid (positioning) |
True about 99.9% of the time, I agree. The 0.1% ( edit), though, comes up often enough for near misses on a regular basis. It's why I reduce risk.
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| I just hate the lights that can't detect you. All lights here are triggered. None are just timed. So you have to ride over the sensor loop several times! |
Luxury. None are around here. The worst examples are shop entrances with lights that work even when the shop's closed, or in daft places. The one outside the Eastway circuit used to be an example, working at 8am. Nowadays it's got traffic, of course.
And 24/7, what's that about? Only needed when traffic's heavy.
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"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken
"Everything in war is simple, but the simplest thing is difficult." Carl Von Clausewitz
Last edited by Roy Gardiner on Thu Jan 15, 2009 10:34 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Roy Gardiner
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| Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 10:31 am Post subject: |
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| John McC wrote: |
| I'm surprised you commute by bike at all, Royston. |
About 25 years now. That you are surprised might tell you something, perhaps?
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John McC
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| Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 10:41 am Post subject: |
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| Roy Gardiner wrote: |
Turning right: you have cars behind you trying to do the same thing, you have cars coming towards you. You, as you know, have to be 100% alert to their stupidity/impatience/aggression.
Turning left: no problem, as you say.
Going straight on: cars left-turning you, cars coming towards you turning right.
Cars vs. no cars. Easy really |
So what do you do at a junction with no lights? Get off and walk accross just in case, as the risks you highlight are extrmely marginal, and certainly less marked than at many ordinary T-junctions and cross roads (I ride through countless such junctions every day).
| Roy Gardiner wrote: |
| Hypothetical: blah blah blah? |
Answering hypothetical questions won't help us here, so I won't wast my time answering, if you don't mind.
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