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JimmyRay
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Joined: 14 Jul 2004
Posts: 1838
Location: Exeter
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 Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 1:12 pm Post subject: Viral Infection - the come back road |
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Right oh... some of you may know about the horrid viral thingy I have been struck down with this year. To this day it is still not known what has grabbed hold of me, although there are plenty of anecdotal reports of long lasting viral infections doing the rounds down my way this year.
Oh, and to add insult in to the wounds, or alternatively as a fantastic by-product (you decide) it has been discovered that I am more than likely suffering from a blood disorder thingy courtesy of my mother.... I see this as a positive really as it has been found at an early stage, so no damage done...in fact wouldn't yet be causing any symptoms, but worth knowing and treating now before the liver and heart packs up 10 years down the line.
All this above has been compounded by the stress and anxiety of not knowing what the hell is going on, and in my opinion it has been very hard to define what are the aftereffects of a virus, what are the side effects of stress, and what is the simple effects of 4 months sitting on my back end.
Certainly when speaking to a consultant the other week, he was quite quick to emphasis the negative effects of moving from an active to sedentary life style in reference to my general feelings of well being.
Anyway, right now I am getting back on the bike a bit now... even tried my hand at a new sport.... I call it 'training free racing', its fun to a degree but bloddy painful.
I am slowly getting better; I can see the wood from the trees now, but last tuesday over cooked it in training funnily enough and had a reminder that things ain't perfect yet. What I am after is some advice... Specifically anyone can suggest anything to help with....
1. Anxiety and stress... I think and even know I am less stressed, but have been struggling with sleep and that is pure stress and anxiety, so I ain't clear yet... wehn I start to feel tired at the end of a day again, I will know I am properly over it... so anyone suggest decent tips for relaxation etc etc.
2. Planning a come back. What should I be doing... should I say no racing, just easy miles... how shoudl I plan to get back to normal?
3. Any one that can do specific tests on things like auto-immune responses, hormone/nutrient levels etc etc... I still feel less than perfect, so in my mind, I am either hormonally imbalanced, lacking nutrients... i.e there has to be science behind the viral 'hangover' that I have. NHS are seeing improvements, so for them its about time and have closed the book so to speak, but for me unknowns give me stress... knowns calm me down... I want to know what, why and how long.
On the positive side, I am still alive, and although desperately unfit, I have been learning loads racing like this, really enjoying being in teh bunch, but wish I could feel more comfortable and confident in going hard... as it is, I hold back a bit... but through fear not understanding.
Any thoughts pointers advice would be cool. |
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smudge100
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Joined: 21 Jun 2007
Posts: 609
Location: On your wheel!
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| Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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Sounds like you are now at point when you need to build up your confidence.
I have a CD that I can borrow (borrow or lend)you from liquid fitness basically a hypnosis cd try liquidfitness .com and you will see it there.
Are you at Modbury Thursday? I also have a rehabilitation guy that deals with nutrition adn sports rehab. Drop me a line and I will give you his phone number.
He is proper clever and has been to a place called "University" or something
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Tom Butcher
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Joined: 20 Aug 2003
Posts: 1575
Location: Derby
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| Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Can't really help Jimmy except from personal experience of having an unexplained illness that the doctors put down to "likely a virus" I'd say you aren't likely to get an answer to the science behind post viral fatigue. Because of that I think you just have to take reasonable precautions - healthy *CENSORED*, possibly nutritional supplements, sufficient rest, try and tackle sources of stress rather than just coping with it etc - main one though is listen to your body and if you need a week taking it easy then that's preferable to a month off the bike because you over cooked it. All the stuff you already know really. |
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KJ
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Joined: 18 May 2005
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| Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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I'm presently reading Eat Well With Nell by Nell Nelson. A couple of relevant chapters perhaps are Boosting Your Immune System and Coping With Stress. Diet and exercise tips.
Stresswise have you considered NLP?
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martin smith
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| Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 1:47 pm Post subject: |
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| KJ wrote: |
| Boosting Your Immune System and Coping With Stress. |
sounds like nutritionist bollocks to me. Strange how these people seem to know how to boost the immune system. if only they would impart this information to the medical community think how many lives would be saved. Or are they just rehashing the eat a balanced *CENSORED* message with some sciency words thrown in to make themselves sound clever?
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KJ
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Joined: 18 May 2005
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| Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:08 pm Post subject: |
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| martin smith wrote: |
| KJ wrote: |
| Boosting Your Immune System and Coping With Stress. |
sounds like nutritionist bollocks to me. Strange how these people seem to know how to boost the immune system. if only they would impart this information to the medical community think how many lives would be saved. Or are they just rehashing the eat a balanced *CENSORED* message with some sciency words thrown in to make themselves sound clever? |
I understand your attitude Martin.
Ten years ago I had a TIA and scans showed my right carotid artery almost totally clogged up, the left artery less so but still beyond safe parameters. I dieted and used what I considered the right foods. I was scanned six monthly and then yearly. After three years the scans showed so much improvement that I was discharged from further care. I took no medication beyond an asprin a day to prevent further strokes. My consultant was interested to see how diet would work. He seemed to be delighted with the results.  He didn't seem to think it was New Age witchery
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Roy Gardiner
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Joined: 14 Jul 2003
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Location: London and Essex
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| Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:36 pm Post subject: |
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Yet I have diabetes (a risk factor for heart disease I'm told) and high cholesterol yet scans show my heart and arteries to be absolutely clear, which is not expected at my age. I know another cyclist with very low cholesterol needing quad bypass; smoker, mind.
As a matter of interest, KJ, what did you change in your diet? Everything  ?
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martin smith
World Champ
Joined: 09 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:55 pm Post subject: |
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| KJ wrote: |
| martin smith wrote: |
| KJ wrote: |
| Boosting Your Immune System and Coping With Stress. |
sounds like nutritionist bollocks to me. Strange how these people seem to know how to boost the immune system. if only they would impart this information to the medical community think how many lives would be saved. Or are they just rehashing the eat a balanced *CENSORED* message with some sciency words thrown in to make themselves sound clever? |
I understand your attitude Martin.
Ten years ago I had a TIA and scans showed my right carotid artery almost totally clogged up, the left artery less so but still beyond safe parameters. I dieted and used what I considered the right foods. I was scanned six monthly and then yearly. After three years the scans showed so much improvement that I was discharged from further care. I took no medication beyond an asprin a day to prevent further strokes. My consultant was interested to see how diet would work. He seemed to be delighted with the results. He didn't seem to think it was New Age witchery |
you misread me. i know *CENSORED* can improve your health, or worsen it. It can make a dramatic difference. What it can't do is specifically 'improve your immune system' or 'lower stress' except in a very general sense. Such claims are made to sell books, with no scientific grounding.
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Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes. |
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martin smith
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| Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Roy Gardiner wrote: |
| smoker, mind |
Bingo...
except my gran was a lifelong cyclist, never smoked, ate well, had a stroke young. sometimes you can't overrule your genetic makeup.
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KJ
T de F Winner
Joined: 18 May 2005
Posts: 26400
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| Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Roy Gardiner wrote: |
Yet I have diabetes (a risk factor for heart disease I'm told) and high cholesterol yet scans show my heart and arteries to be absolutely clear, which is not expected at my age. I know another cyclist with very low cholesterol needing quad bypass; smoker, mind.
As a matter of interest, KJ, what did you change in your diet? Everything ? |
My stroke factor is genetic. My cholesterol is borderline and I have quite low blood pressure so not an obvious stroke candidate unless you look at my ancestors.
My *CENSORED* consisted of much smaller portions, about a third of what I had been eating. Muesli every morning, but not as a snack anymore Lots of fruit and vegetables but less potato than previously. I did drop the nut intake but have recently upped it again as walnuts especially are good for joints and inflammation. I ate less pasta and rice. No biscuits, cakes, quiches, crisps or booze for three years. No chocolate. Fewer eggs and no cheese at all. Oily fish twice a week. Semi skimmed goats milk and only a limited intake. I bought smaller bowls and plates so my plate looked as full as the boys but I had less to eat It's a good way of portion control. Bread I ate and still eat only a little each week and it is brown for preference.
TBH I need to restrict my intake of red wine and dark chocolate again as I'm bouncing around the 64 k and can't get the weight down at present.
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KJ
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Joined: 18 May 2005
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| Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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| martin smith wrote: |
| Roy Gardiner wrote: |
| smoker, mind |
Bingo...
except my gran was a lifelong cyclist, never smoked, ate well, had a stroke young. sometimes you can't overrule your genetic makeup. |
Yup 
Doctors commented to me though that if I hadn't been super fit with a good *CENSORED* and lifestyle I might not have been around to tease you
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KJ
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Joined: 18 May 2005
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| Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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| martin smith wrote: |
| KJ wrote: |
| martin smith wrote: |
| KJ wrote: |
| Boosting Your Immune System and Coping With Stress. |
sounds like nutritionist bollocks to me. Strange how these people seem to know how to boost the immune system. if only they would impart this information to the medical community think how many lives would be saved. Or are they just rehashing the eat a balanced *CENSORED* message with some sciency words thrown in to make themselves sound clever? |
I understand your attitude Martin.
Ten years ago I had a TIA and scans showed my right carotid artery almost totally clogged up, the left artery less so but still beyond safe parameters. I dieted and used what I considered the right foods. I was scanned six monthly and then yearly. After three years the scans showed so much improvement that I was discharged from further care. I took no medication beyond an asprin a day to prevent further strokes. My consultant was interested to see how diet would work. He seemed to be delighted with the results. He didn't seem to think it was New Age witchery |
you misread me. i know *CENSORED* can improve your health, or worsen it. It can make a dramatic difference. What it can't do is specifically 'improve your immune system' or 'lower stress' except in a very general sense. Such claims are made to sell books, with no scientific grounding. |
So Vit B makes no difference to PMT?
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Des
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Location: Harrow
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| Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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Martin suffers from PMT 
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JimmyRay
E, Silver
Joined: 14 Jul 2004
Posts: 1838
Location: Exeter
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| Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 10:04 am Post subject: |
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Cheers for teh comments all.
Smudge I is at Ilton on Thursday.... Modbury will depend on how Ilton goes to be honest.
The stress, or anxiety issue is all about the illness, that is the source the everything. If I could say I had had ABC, have DEF, which will take GHI to recover fully from, I would be happy, the source would go, I'd be fine.. I know from experience I struggle with influencers that I am unable to understand if not control. This is a bulls-eye for getting a stress response in me.
Sadly the NHS will not accept this, and have done nothing more throughout than kill time in the hope things will clear up on their own, and sign off anything that could get them in poo if they ignored.
I am happy to go private, happy to pay fo tests, but sadly the South West has little to no outlet for people like me to blow their money on.
KJ, I think teh NLP is actually a really good idea, as it is all about self talk and stuff that will get me out of the stress/anxiety pattern. *CENSORED* wise, I am cutting out refined sugar, alcohol, caffeine, eating as much raw produce as I can and supplementing on collustrum, CoEnzyme Q10, and sporadic B vitamin and pro-biotic.
This morning was a real negative... cycled to work, and as planning to ride later (for the first time with a HRM as I have been going without lately through fear of over analysis) I used the HRM to measure my effort... Last Tuesday I felt I overdid things, and keen not to repeat wanted to go easy. Sadly the HRM told me my worst fear... my HR was mega high and massively over-reactive.
Now, I also had a bad nights sleep last night... I have been struggling with sleep, and have developed a pattern that involves sporadic use of Nytol, and 15mins reading in bed. Sadly the missus was knacked last night, so went earlier than me, so my pattern was ruined, and as because I am where I am anxiety wise, I struggled to get off.... slept on teh sofa in teh end as that is a different 'place' mentally.... odd.
Anyway, looked into Nytol and a side effect is potentially increased HR, but I am not sure this is it, or if indeed the body is still "CENSORED". Argh!!!!
RPE was fine, I felt fine... I now feel anxious and am over-analysing everything again! |
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Rich Hill
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Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Posts: 15188
Location: Coventry
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| Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 10:14 am Post subject: |
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| JimmyRay wrote: |
Cheers for teh comments all.
RPE was fine, I felt fine... I now feel anxious and am over-analysing everything again! |
Your on a path to mental exhaustion. My suggestion would be to start learning relaxation techniques. There are LOAD and LOADS and you have to put your mind to them as they DO help.
One that my current Boss taught me a few years ago was to lie in bed and imagine yourself relaxing from your toes to your head. Think of your muscles and imagine them unwinding and relaxing. Do this a few times and you will become chilled out. This will also give your mind and brain a chance to start producing the necessary changes for sleep to come on.
Also - start being good to yourself - do something YOU want to do - if you want to stuff yourself with sweets (Whoops....! ) do it - if you want to take the day off work - stuff it - do it. Feel like a new cycling top - go get it - you matter way more than anyone else agenda - be selfish to your self - it sets you up way better.
Also - a quick session with Legro on the NLP is good - he's proper intense and makes you concentrate on you - if you don't he'll give you hiding so I always pay attention. But it does give you techniques to work with and help control anxiety.
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Billy Boy
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Joined: 11 Aug 2003
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Location: Not Aylesbury
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| Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 10:29 am Post subject: |
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| Rich Hill wrote: |
| JimmyRay wrote: |
Cheers for teh comments all.
RPE was fine, I felt fine... I now feel anxious and am over-analysing everything again! |
Your on a path to mental exhaustion. My suggestion would be to start learning relaxation techniques. There are LOAD and LOADS and you have to put your mind to them as they DO help.
One that my current Boss taught me a few years ago was to lie in bed and imagine yourself relaxing from your toes to your head. Think of your muscles and imagine them unwinding and relaxing. Do this a few times and you will become chilled out. This will also give your mind and brain a chance to start producing the necessary changes for sleep to come on. |
Do you work for Alan Partridge?
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smudge100
E, Silver
Joined: 21 Jun 2007
Posts: 609
Location: On your wheel!
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| Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 2:12 pm Post subject: |
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Dude,
That Cd I have is awesome and works with NLP. If you can get over the American/Australian accent you will defo get benefit from it.
I have never managed to stay awake for the whole CD and a friend of mine had the same experience. So even if it sends you night night then it will be giving you some benefit.
just check out liquid fitness .com
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Tucker
Tour Winner
Joined: 03 May 2006
Posts: 15722
Location: Swindon
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| Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Rich Hill wrote: |
| Your on a path to mental exhaustion. My suggestion would be to start learning relaxation techniques. There are LOAD and LOADS and you have to put your mind to them as they DO help. |
To be honest, the best relaxation technique before bed is to go for a good clearout. |
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BryanTaylor
E, Bronze
Joined: 29 Mar 2003
Posts: 415
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| Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 3:27 pm Post subject: |
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| JimmyRay wrote: |
Cheers for teh comments all.
The stress, or anxiety issue is all about the illness, that is the source the everything. If I could say I had had ABC, have DEF, which will take GHI to recover fully from, I would be happy, the source would go, I'd be fine.. I know from experience I struggle with influencers that I am unable to understand if not control. This is a bulls-eye for getting a stress response in me. |
Relate perfectly to what you’re saying as I was ill in 2007. It started with trying to race hard having got over an injury & chest infection, whilst in a very period at work, & taking kids abroad racing & loads of other stuff. Initial symptoms were breathing difficulties & chest pain racing, which then progressed to nearly all the time & over the next few months I had many more problems. It eventually turned out I had burn out from trying to do too much, but this wasn’t picked up at the time & all the other issues needing fixing anyway, & after a few months of hospital tests & no one able to diagnose the problem, I was going downhill fast, initially with anxiety problems after a Doc decided to send me to a psychiatrist for the breathing – at that point I wondered if I’d ever recover if top Docs couldn’t diagnose the problem. After 2 visits, I refused to see a psychiatrist again, as being quizzed about my childhood & being given anxiety pills was just making the matter 10 times worse, & luckily they suggested seeing a breathing physio. I was spending hours on the internet trying to figure out what might be wrong, which just made things worse, couldn’t sleep properly & loads more. The odd thing was the week I took some kids to race in Assen I felt great, yet the moment I was back it started again, which now makes perfect sense but at the time made things worse.
The physio easily diagnosing the breathing problem after 4 months of no one knowing almost saved me, but I was still going downhill & on one of my regular GP visits scored max 10/10 for depression (this was September & I’d only raced twice since March). Suddenly my GP took me seriously, & also took note of some tests on adrenal fatigue that I’d have done a few months earlier & they’d not been interested in (a friend, Jo Mcrae who as well as being a good cyclist is an expert in this area & suggested I do these). But I still ended up on prozac to fix the depression, luckily for only a month which is something of a record recovery apparently, helped by seeing some odd Icelandic alternative bloke who did some strange tapping exercises & left me unable to get out of bed the next day. But after that I felt good & couldn’t get off prozac quick enough & the exercises the physio had me doing for the last 3 months were fixing the breathing issue. My GP signed me off work for 4 weeks before Xmas (hadn't been off sick for about 6 years prior) to give myself a holiday from everything that had happened which is a slightly unusual concept, but this was effectively my first real recovery period.
So last year I eased back in gently. In the spring I avoided chaingangs & long weekend rides, & replaced them with pilates & my club’s kids rides – still 3 hours but slow & a café stop. I had to be careful when the racing season started, so deliberately planned kids racing trips to clash with any big track events I’d want to do, so stopped me coming back too quickly & all I really did was low key track league. I was competitive in bunch sprints, but unable to attack & certainly couldn’t pursuit or time trial. I was seeing a counsellor for a month or so really to just help talk through the after-effects of what had happened. Last winter I did cross & chaingang again, but still kept up the pilates. And this year I feel I’m back to where I was before I got ill, & I’m more sensible now with what I do – took kids to Belgium last weekend to race, so rather than killing myself at TL last night I took it easy & not racing tonight either.
It’s possible CW may do something on soon on adrenal fatigue as Jo Mcrae has been looking at a possible article on the subject for them, but not sure if it’ll go in or not.
I was told various things like not being on the pc just before going to sleep, drinking milkshake before sleep, relaxation techniques, but none really worked because I was still on the way down. Anxiety pills are a bad idea unless you can sort out the cause of the anxiety whilst taking them. I read about what the pills can do to you & ended up more anxious because I didn’t want to take them, I just wanted someone to tell me why I was hyperventilating! Try if possible to look at more natural products, although I did this & not sure some of them worked at all.
Sorry if I've gone on more than a Plurien post, but hope it helps a little! |
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JimmyRay
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Joined: 14 Jul 2004
Posts: 1838
Location: Exeter
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| Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 9:43 am Post subject: |
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Bryan... thanks for the reply. From stuff I have heard from people is that as cyclists, or just athletes we have a tendency to either worsen our symptoms, or some how get the short end of the stick from doctors and the NHS with regards to these things.
Both are explainable I guess, after all the years I've been riding I kind of define myself from my athletic ability.. I like being fit, I like being fast, I like having direction supporting the day to day, other than job, kids etc. Take this away from me without explaining why then its going to have stress and anxiety side effects... its totally natural. Sadly stress response will effect the way the body recovers from sickness, so its a horible circle really... you get sick, you get stressed, this makes you more sick... stressed... continue to infinity.
Then the NHS... even though I knew not to, I still ended up talking to my doctor about lost ability to ride a bike because of illness.... I can understand that with limited resources, why a doctor is going to devalue the whinging of someone who isn't able to ride his bike as much as he wants to... did dums. As Bryan mentions its only when they understand what the implications of this are do they start to think ..'hmm maybe I should look into this....'
Personally, I have given up with the NHS. My chiropractor picked up on the stress element to my symptoms, suggested adrenal fatigue, raised cortisone levels etc and it is something I am working on. I am better... certianly in my head, but I ain't there, no way, when I'm sleeping proper and when I can take a bad day on teh chin, I'll be happy...
However, I am going to focus on what I can control, so working with the chiro again, I will get some tests done to define what, if any immune response activities are going on in the body to understand where I genuinely am on the come back trail.
In reference to yesterday... and today actually.. I feel like I have a cold... my work colleague feels the same so guess what... chances are I have a cold! Tee hee! |
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