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JimmyRay
E, Silver
Joined: 14 Jul 2004
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Location: Exeter
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 Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 9:48 am Post subject: Hypnotherapy or CBT? |
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As most of you will know, I've moaned all year about my poor health and ongoing sickness and stuff.
Well on the postive side all is impoving greatly... improving to the extent that I recently went on a holiday and just felt normal all week. Ok I came back with a cold, as did the other half and the nipper, but all is good.
Apart from..... a nice bit of insomnia that is simply not going away, infact tis getting worse. Having plenty of time to analyse this during my nights without sleep (and we are talking no sleep at all here) I have come to the following conclusion;
When ill, for about 4 months I felt like you do when you are on the edge of getting over a cold, or when you have been on a massive bender, woken up teh next day with teh worlds worst hangover, and at the end of teh day, you know you need a good nights sleep to get back on track.
This led to me becoming obsessed with getting a good nights sleep, as I constantly felt a few top nights sleep would sort me right out. Alas, after a while the anxiety I had over my illness transferred to getting this seemingly all important sleep, until I developed an unhealthy obsession with getting to sleep... which started to affect my ability to get to sleep in the first place.
This has continued to develop. I am painfully aware of the fact that I am mentally stopping sleep as every time I think I am nodding off, I almost get a little rush of adrenalin when I realise I nearly asleep and wake myself up... then I get wound up, adn its no sleep for Jimmy tonight.
What is frustrating is that if I get to sleep, I am out for 8 hours sound as a pound... if I'm not asleep within 20mins of hitting the sack, it won't happen.
So.... I need to change my underlying attitude to sleep and my 'self talk' when approaching bedtime. For this I need external help... and wondered if anyone had experience, opinions as to what would be the better way forward... hypnosis or Cognitive Behavioural Therapy.
Personally I think hypnosis would be a quick fix, however that would rely on being susceptible to hypnosis, but also there are some other 'mental hangovers' from my malaise that would potentially benefit from some CBT work.
Discuss if you can be ars..... |
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JimmyRay
E, Silver
Joined: 14 Jul 2004
Posts: 1838
Location: Exeter
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| Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 9:48 am Post subject: |
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| Oops, that was an essay...sorry. |
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colinpeerman
E, Gold
Joined: 26 Sep 2006
Posts: 3082
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| Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 9:51 am Post subject: |
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| Paul Tucker, MD wrote: |
a healthy dose of MTFU, works everytime.
next! |
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wishing my bike fitted as badly as Rich Hill's ... |
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Hans Datdodishes
T de F Winner
Joined: 28 Feb 2002
Posts: 28370
Location: On the Superior Forum with the cool kids
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| Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 9:59 am Post subject: |
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| Legro would sort you out - seriously |
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special guest star
Div 1 Pro
Joined: 23 Oct 2003
Posts: 6939
Location: waiting to jump/going down with pedals on fire
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| Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 10:08 am Post subject: Re: Hypnotherapy or CBT? |
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| JimmyRay wrote: |
As most of you will know, I've moaned all year about my poor health and ongoing sickness and stuff.
Well on the postive side all is impoving greatly... improving to the extent that I recently went on a holiday and just felt normal all week. Ok I came back with a cold, as did the other half and the nipper, but all is good.
Apart from..... a nice bit of insomnia that is simply not going away, infact tis getting worse. Having plenty of time to analyse this during my nights without sleep (and we are talking no sleep at all here) I have come to the following conclusion;
When ill, for about 4 months I felt like you do when you are on the edge of getting over a cold, or when you have been on a massive bender, woken up teh next day with teh worlds worst hangover, and at the end of teh day, you know you need a good nights sleep to get back on track.
This led to me becoming obsessed with getting a good nights sleep, as I constantly felt a few top nights sleep would sort me right out. Alas, after a while the anxiety I had over my illness transferred to getting this seemingly all important sleep, until I developed an unhealthy obsession with getting to sleep... which started to affect my ability to get to sleep in the first place.
This has continued to develop. I am painfully aware of the fact that I am mentally stopping sleep as every time I think I am nodding off, I almost get a little rush of adrenalin when I realise I nearly asleep and wake myself up... then I get wound up, adn its no sleep for Jimmy tonight.
What is frustrating is that if I get to sleep, I am out for 8 hours sound as a pound... if I'm not asleep within 20mins of hitting the sack, it won't happen.
So.... I need to change my underlying attitude to sleep and my 'self talk' when approaching bedtime. For this I need external help... and wondered if anyone had experience, opinions as to what would be the better way forward... hypnosis or Cognitive Behavioural Therapy.
Personally I think hypnosis would be a quick fix, however that would rely on being susceptible to hypnosis, but also there are some other 'mental hangovers' from my malaise that would potentially benefit from some CBT work.
Discuss if you can be ars..... |
did you drop off? |
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special guest star
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Joined: 23 Oct 2003
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Location: waiting to jump/going down with pedals on fire
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| Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 10:10 am Post subject: |
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what is the ongoing illness? is it stress based/fatigue type syndrome/unspecific?
you may have been going on about it - but I haven't been reading it  |
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JimmyRay
E, Silver
Joined: 14 Jul 2004
Posts: 1838
Location: Exeter
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| Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 10:44 am Post subject: |
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Yeah, tried Tuckers sage-like advice and its not working... to be fair things get pretty primal anyway when you have gone without sleep for three nights, for once being a 'girl' and getting help is probably the way forward.
Illness was merely a virus that simply wouldn't feck off.. truth be told I can with hindsight see that I had been running myself down for months before hand, and when what was a nasty virus doing teh rounds locally got me, it got me good.
Essentially 5 months to get to a stage where I felt well enough to do anything, and then another 8 weeks to get to a place where I could say i was feeling healthy - ish again. |
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Roy Gardiner
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Joined: 14 Jul 2003
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Location: London and Essex
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| Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 10:52 am Post subject: |
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| JimmyRay wrote: |
| ... to be fair things get pretty primal anyway when you have gone without sleep for three nights, for once being a 'girl' and getting help is probably the way forward. |
If you don't fall asleep within a few minutes, do you stay in bed or get up again?
If you stay in bed could it be that you in fact are sleeping without realising; it's very hard to stay awake for three nights (and so, four days). I'm sorry to be patronising, just an idea.
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KJ
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Joined: 18 May 2005
Posts: 26400
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| Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 10:54 am Post subject: |
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| Roy Gardiner wrote: |
| JimmyRay wrote: |
| ... to be fair things get pretty primal anyway when you have gone without sleep for three nights, for once being a 'girl' and getting help is probably the way forward. |
If you don't fall asleep within a few minutes, do you stay in bed or get up again?
If you stay in bed I suggest that you in fact are sleeping without realising; it's very hard to stay awake for three nights (and so, four days). I'm sorry to be patronising, just an idea. |
It's the quality of the sleep, not the length of time asleep that counts. If you don't go to sleep get back out of bed.
_________________
'You are a free woman. You will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, de-briefed (that you should be so lucky ) or numbered. Your life is your own.' |
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special guest star
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Joined: 23 Oct 2003
Posts: 6939
Location: waiting to jump/going down with pedals on fire
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| Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 10:56 am Post subject: |
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| JimmyRay wrote: |
Yeah, tried Tuckers sage-like advice and its not working... to be fair things get pretty primal anyway when you have gone without sleep for three nights, for once being a 'girl' and getting help is probably the way forward.
Illness was merely a virus that simply wouldn't feck off.. truth be told I can with hindsight see that I had been running myself down for months before hand, and when what was a nasty virus doing teh rounds locally got me, it got me good.
Essentially 5 months to get to a stage where I felt well enough to do anything, and then another 8 weeks to get to a place where I could say i was feeling healthy - ish again. |
weird insomnias were a part of the me/CFS diagnosis (and PTSD) .....I dont think you need any 'self talk' - more holistic stuff to 'treat' yourself physically. the Chinese understand this perfectly ..natural rhythmns get disrupted but find a way back - I think you trying to tackle an unknown problem that you see as psychological is just amplifying it.... |
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special guest star
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Joined: 23 Oct 2003
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Location: waiting to jump/going down with pedals on fire
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| Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 11:00 am Post subject: |
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| KJ wrote: |
| Roy Gardiner wrote: |
| JimmyRay wrote: |
| ... to be fair things get pretty primal anyway when you have gone without sleep for three nights, for once being a 'girl' and getting help is probably the way forward. |
If you don't fall asleep within a few minutes, do you stay in bed or get up again?
If you stay in bed I suggest that you in fact are sleeping without realising; it's very hard to stay awake for three nights (and so, four days). I'm sorry to be patronising, just an idea. |
It's the quality of the sleep, not the length of time asleep that counts. If you don't go to sleep get back out of bed. |
Better to stay in bed and try and relax - difficult I know - but horizontal in a meditative state is better than being up - fill your i pod with slow music you like and 'chill'
honestly I'd say go and see a Chinese doctor and listen to their advice on d iet as well |
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KJ
T de F Winner
Joined: 18 May 2005
Posts: 26400
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| Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 11:10 am Post subject: |
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| special guest star wrote: |
| KJ wrote: |
| Roy Gardiner wrote: |
| JimmyRay wrote: |
| ... to be fair things get pretty primal anyway when you have gone without sleep for three nights, for once being a 'girl' and getting help is probably the way forward. |
If you don't fall asleep within a few minutes, do you stay in bed or get up again?
If you stay in bed I suggest that you in fact are sleeping without realising; it's very hard to stay awake for three nights (and so, four days). I'm sorry to be patronising, just an idea. |
It's the quality of the sleep, not the length of time asleep that counts. If you don't go to sleep get back out of bed. |
Better to stay in bed and try and relax - difficult I know - but horizontal in a meditative state is better than being up - fill your i pod with slow music you like and 'chill'
honestly I'd say go and see a Chinese doctor and listen to their advice on d iet as well |
I disagree on several counts. If the anxiety is related to not sleeping when in bed then lying horizontal trying to relax makes no sense. Better to work on the source of the anxiety. Legro is worth a try.
_________________
'You are a free woman. You will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, de-briefed (that you should be so lucky ) or numbered. Your life is your own.' |
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special guest star
Div 1 Pro
Joined: 23 Oct 2003
Posts: 6939
Location: waiting to jump/going down with pedals on fire
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| Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 11:16 am Post subject: |
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| KJ wrote: |
| special guest star wrote: |
| KJ wrote: |
| Roy Gardiner wrote: |
| JimmyRay wrote: |
| ... to be fair things get pretty primal anyway when you have gone without sleep for three nights, for once being a 'girl' and getting help is probably the way forward. |
If you don't fall asleep within a few minutes, do you stay in bed or get up again?
If you stay in bed I suggest that you in fact are sleeping without realising; it's very hard to stay awake for three nights (and so, four days). I'm sorry to be patronising, just an idea. |
It's the quality of the sleep, not the length of time asleep that counts. If you don't go to sleep get back out of bed. |
Better to stay in bed and try and relax - difficult I know - but horizontal in a meditative state is better than being up - fill your i pod with slow music you like and 'chill'
honestly I'd say go and see a Chinese doctor and listen to their advice on d iet as well |
I disagree on several counts. If the anxiety is related to not sleeping when in bed then lying horizontal trying to relax makes no sense. Better to work on the source of the anxiety. Legro is worth a try. |
it's not really anxiety is it- it's frustration - there is no 'source' of anxiety
and even if it was anxiety learning to relax makes all the sense in the world !! |
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Gary K
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Joined: 27 Feb 2002
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Location: Toowoomba, Queensland, in Sunny Australia!!!
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| Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 11:38 am Post subject: |
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Try something like neovite with ZMA half an hour before bed. The neovite will also help to build your immune system.
Hypnosis or NLP will help you, as will listening to one of those hypnosis CDs, which never failed to send me to sleep when I was doing one post a knee op (to give me back my confidence in putting all my power through the knee and not constantly worrying about it giving way).
Legro and Lee Povey both do NLP by the way.
Good luck with it. |
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JimmyRay
E, Silver
Joined: 14 Jul 2004
Posts: 1838
Location: Exeter
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| Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 11:53 am Post subject: |
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The anxiety is caused by the not sleeping.. and the over importance of quality sleep that I now have ingrained in my head.
I agree with the sleep patterns getting disrupted by the illness, and agree that they will find their way back...in fact they had all but done so, until this started spiralling again, but I personally feel that this has got to teh point where the mind needs treating...
I will look into teh chinese medicine side though as I tink there could be something in it all, and maybe I should tap up Legro or Lee and see what they say too.
Roy, I have been doing both... getting up and also trying staying in bed. To be fair, getting up can sometimes work as it has 'reset' the brain. Just a glass of water, a quick flick through a mag has killed the 'frustration' (as mentioned), however its not been effective of late. |
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martin smith
World Champ
Joined: 09 Jun 2003
Posts: 12187
Location: shoehorning kittens into jars
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| Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 11:53 am Post subject: |
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| special guest star wrote: |
honestly I'd say go and see a Chinese doctor and listen to their advice on d iet as well |
why?
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Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes. |
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Tucker
Tour Winner
Joined: 03 May 2006
Posts: 15722
Location: Swindon
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| Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 11:55 am Post subject: |
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| colinpeerman wrote: |
| Paul Tucker, MD wrote: |
a healthy dose of MTFU, works everytime.
next! |
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Hmmm, I don't remember saying that. Has someone hacked into my account?
Good advice mind. |
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Hans Datdodishes
T de F Winner
Joined: 28 Feb 2002
Posts: 28370
Location: On the Superior Forum with the cool kids
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| Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 11:56 am Post subject: |
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| martin smith wrote: |
| special guest star wrote: |
honestly I'd say go and see a Chinese doctor and listen to their advice on d iet as well |
why? |
Cos they're Chinese. They'd never lie about how dried turtle bollocks can cure AIDS, or how a needle in your thumb can make your leg drop off |
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Tucker
Tour Winner
Joined: 03 May 2006
Posts: 15722
Location: Swindon
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| Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 11:58 am Post subject: |
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| I used to listen to accountancy CDs when I was studying for me finals. I can honestly say that not once did I make it past the second track. I've probably still got them, will have a look tonight. |
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special guest star
Div 1 Pro
Joined: 23 Oct 2003
Posts: 6939
Location: waiting to jump/going down with pedals on fire
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| Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 11:58 am Post subject: |
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| martin smith wrote: |
| special guest star wrote: |
honestly I'd say go and see a Chinese doctor and listen to their advice on d iet as well |
why? |
why not |
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