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Patrick
Div 3 Pro
Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 3974
Location: Royston Vasey
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 Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 10:12 am Post subject: |
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| Can't see why people would be put off by riding down a dual carriageway on a weekend with vehicles passing at 80mph, nothing wrong with it. Highly enjoyable I presume. |
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John McC
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Joined: 14 Jul 2003
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Location: Leafy Barnet
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| Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Patrick wrote: |
| Can't see why people would be put off by riding down a dual carriageway on a weekend with vehicles passing at 80mph, nothing wrong with it. Highly enjoyable I presume. |
Indeed, this is the material point.
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vegetable
Cat 1 Groupie
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Posts: 181
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| Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 7:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Can't see why people would be put off by riding down a dual carriageway on a weekend with vehicles passing at 80mph, nothing wrong with it. Highly enjoyable I presume. |
Vehicles pass at high speed when you cycle on any road. |
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PNuT
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Joined: 12 Sep 2002
Posts: 18512
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| Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 3:17 am Post subject: |
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| vegetable wrote: |
Vehicles pass at high speed when you cycle on any road. |
but how many directions are they travelling in at high speed on a single carriageway road?
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robbo100
Cat 3 Groupie
Joined: 05 Aug 2010
Posts: 24
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| Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 4:46 am Post subject: |
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| vegetable wrote: |
Vehicles pass at high speed when you cycle on any road. |
Correct but lets look at this a little closer.
(i) Many riders are eye balls out and their awareness/control of a bike is not that of a traiing ride
(ii) Some TTers will take risks to save seconds
(iii) Many drivers don't expect cyclists on DCs
(iv) Early morning starts often go hand in hand with sleep drivers.
(v) Many events are held in weather that you wouldnt train in
I dont think the roads are safe as they are and some or all of these factors only result in a POTENTIALLY more dangerous situation.
Pnut
Well done on your 50 this weekend.
On a different note.
I cant see a future for the event though. 29 finishers, with only 7 under the age of 40. |
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neil7536
Cat 1 Groupie
Joined: 26 Dec 2005
Posts: 191
Location: rubber neckin on the M6
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| Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 5:52 am Post subject: |
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maybe its contraversial, but if the motor insurance law in the uk, was the same as the rest of europe, where the driver is guilty till proven innocent, unless he can prove the cyclist is at fault, then there will always tragic accidents on uk roads,
if you ride your bike in france, spain, holland etc, etc, vehicles give you a much wider berth unlike in the uk, where i,ve been touched by loads of cars.
have a nice day. |
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Hans Datdodishes
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Joined: 28 Feb 2002
Posts: 28370
Location: On the Superior Forum with the cool kids
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| Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 6:02 am Post subject: |
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I don't think they race up and down dual carriageways in search of artificial times in those countries.
If you want an unreal fast time, just charge up. I suspect a lot of them do anyway
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vegetable
Cat 1 Groupie
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Posts: 181
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| Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 6:36 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Correct but lets look at this a little closer. |
No lets cut to the chase, you want to ban TT's on safety grounds well if we are talking about safety why not ban all cycle sport on open roads and force all cycle sport onto closed circuits. Better still ban all cycling.
Careful what you wish for. |
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Davey C
Div 2 Pro
Joined: 01 Jun 2008
Posts: 5745
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| Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 7:48 am Post subject: |
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| vegetable wrote: |
| Quote: |
Correct but lets look at this a little closer. |
No lets cut to the chase, you want to ban TT's on safety grounds well if we are talking about safety why not ban all cycle sport on open roads and force all cycle sport onto closed circuits. Better still ban all cycling.
Careful what you wish for. |
Don't get all TLI on us.
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martin smith
World Champ
Joined: 09 Jun 2003
Posts: 12187
Location: shoehorning kittens into jars
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| Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 8:00 am Post subject: |
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| neil7536 wrote: |
maybe its contraversial, but if the motor insurance law in the uk, was the same as the rest of europe, where the driver is guilty till proven innocent, unless he can prove the cyclist is at fault, then there will always tragic accidents on uk roads,
if you ride your bike in france, spain, holland etc, etc, vehicles give you a much wider berth unlike in the uk, where i,ve been touched by loads of cars.
have a nice day. |
So why is the risk of being killed as a cyclist in spain so much higher than in the UK then?
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Rob of the Og
E, Gold
Joined: 12 Jan 2005
Posts: 2256
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| Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 8:21 am Post subject: |
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| mho wrote: |
I seem to recall there are an average of 3 or 4 fatalities a year TT'ing.
Head down riding used to be the major cause but I'd guess that is no longer the case with the more widespread use of *censored*. |
Heads-down shouldn't be an issue any more with most people having decent positions on tri-bars, and with aero helmets you're very aware that having your head up is the fastest way to ride. I guess the most likely accidents now are vehicles going into the back of a rider, and rider taking too many risks at a roundabout (at a straight-ahead r/bout a decent tester is often going through quicker than the traffic, and at most turns you have to get across the traffic.) My personal view is that we should have the ability to use NEG to escort junior and youth riders in 10's - logistically it would be impossible to have an escort with every rider but by spacing out youngsters in the field you would only need a few moto's.
Timetrialling's biggest problem is bridging the gap between the mega-events with 240+ riders and loads of returned entries and the normal village hall event with 30 or 40. I think there either needs more creative thinking to find a motivation for slower riders to have a go at events where they have both no chance of winning and no chance of a PB, or else we might as well abandon those events and accept that TT'ing is all about the handful of mega-events and start charging more for them and spending on things like moto escorts and other safety equipment. And bring them into BC obviously  |
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olamba
E, Silver
Joined: 29 May 2010
Posts: 1106
Location: Istanbul not Constantinople
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| Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 8:41 am Post subject: |
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| Davey C wrote: |
the amount of riders with rear lights on was quite suprising. I don't think they were doing it because they were more aero either.
Also I was suprised at the amount of near misses and bad driving/riding. |
I go out & photograph a few local TT's & the club has a mandatory rear light policy(& helmets). very easy to spot the fairly high intensity flashing LED but not the rather pointless lights that have a watch battery powering them. Even on a sunny evening they are helpful as the riders pass into shadow & those in dark clothing are even harder to spot but better to look cool than be seen eh? 
One '10' at my local club was cancelled from the start of this year as it was deemed too dangerous with the large numbers of riders approaching the turning point roundabout, which is rather busy. As has been suggested earlier the larger numbers are from new members to the club who are mostly triathletes. This has given the club a new lease of life & brought in people that otherwise would've had no interest in joining a cycling only club.
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Paul H.
E, Bronze
Joined: 04 Jul 2004
Posts: 314
Location: not numb
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| Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 8:56 am Post subject: |
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So why is the risk of being killed as a cyclist in spain so much higher than in the UK then?[/quote]
is it something to do with the doctors?  |
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martin smith
World Champ
Joined: 09 Jun 2003
Posts: 12187
Location: shoehorning kittens into jars
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| Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 9:00 am Post subject: |
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| Paul H. wrote: |
| Martin Smith wrote: |
| So why is the risk of being killed as a cyclist in spain so much higher than in the UK then? |
is it something to do with the doctors? |
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Lee
World Champ
Joined: 12 Jul 2002
Posts: 12612
Location: Hertfordshire
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| Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 12:42 pm Post subject: |
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| robbo100 wrote: |
| vegetable wrote: |
Vehicles pass at high speed when you cycle on any road. |
Correct but lets look at this a little closer.
(i) Many riders are eye balls out and their awareness/control of a bike is not that of a traiing ride
(ii) Some TTers will take risks to save seconds
(iii) Many drivers don't expect cyclists on DCs
(iv) Early morning starts often go hand in hand with sleep drivers.
(v) Many events are held in weather that you wouldnt train in
I dont think the roads are safe as they are and some or all of these factors only result in a POTENTIALLY more dangerous situation.
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All of those points, with the possible exception of (i) are applicxable to just about all types of cycling.
Oh and more cyclists have died on London streets this year than in TT's - do we ban commuting? Some were possibly caused by taking risks risks, some will have been early morning and some were definitely caused by drivers not paying attention. And people commute in all weathers. So we best ban it hadn't we? You don't like testing, good for you. But the arguments you present hhere could be used to ban all cycling.
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| Tucker wrote: |
| But, on reflection, you're probably right... |
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PNuT
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Joined: 12 Sep 2002
Posts: 18512
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| Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 2:39 pm Post subject: |
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| robbo100 wrote: |
On a different note.
I cant see a future for the event though. 29 finishers, with only 7 under the age of 40. |
do they want a huge field?
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robbo100
Cat 3 Groupie
Joined: 05 Aug 2010
Posts: 24
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| Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 5:05 pm Post subject: |
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| vegetable wrote: |
No lets cut to the chase, you want to ban TT's on safety grounds well if we are talking about safety why not ban all cycle sport on open roads and force all cycle sport onto closed circuits. Better still ban all cycling.
Careful what you wish for. |
That reads so badly I just can't believe I am going to have a logical debate with you on the matter. It sounds like an emotional break up.
| Lee wrote: |
All of those points, with the possible exception of (i) are applicxable to just about all types of cycling.
Oh and more cyclists have died on London streets this year than in TT's - do we ban commuting? Some were possibly caused by taking risks risks, some will have been early morning and some were definitely caused by drivers not paying attention. And people commute in all weathers. So we best ban it hadn't we? You don't like testing, good for you. But the arguments you present hhere could be used to ban all cycling. |
Dear oh dear. Perhaps you and the poster above can get together and suggest I ban the world.
Even more laughable is that you shuned the topic originally but seem to have bitten.
Both of you, read my post again....
I have stated we need to look at other ways to keep the sport alive before its lost.
Leave your emotional turmoil behind and let's look objectively at this without childish suggestions such as "You just want to ban everything, let's all kill cycle sport"
| PNuT wrote: |
| robbo100 wrote: |
On a different note.
I cant see a future for the event though. 29 finishers, with only 7 under the age of 40. |
do they want a huge field? |
Yes and I doubt anyone would argue any different.
Large fields create competition, interest, a social focus, revenue to pay for hosting an event, attention from the cycling world and so on and so on...If a 50 is straight out and back do we want to send marshalls up to 25 miles away from the HQ/start to wave 29 riders through?
I don't know any event organiser who wants a field of 30 for an open event on a weekend.
I cannot find one good argument for a field so small on any level but I am open to listen to suggestions. |
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Billy Boy
T de F Winner
Joined: 11 Aug 2003
Posts: 30726
Location: Not Aylesbury
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| Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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Just leave it be, if it does it dies, if it doesn't it doesn't, where's the problem?
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DenHaag
E, Gold
Joined: 24 Aug 2008
Posts: 3078
Location: Northumberland
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| Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Billy Boy wrote: |
| Just leave it be, if it does it dies, if it doesn't it doesn't, where's the problem? |
Don't quite understand that. Surely if you're into TTs you might want to try and do something to reverse the trend? If it dies then, so be it. |
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PNuT
Moderator
Joined: 12 Sep 2002
Posts: 18512
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| Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 4:12 am Post subject: |
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| robbo100 wrote: |
Yes and I doubt anyone would argue any different.
Large fields create competition, interest, a social focus, revenue to pay for hosting an event, attention from the cycling world and so on and so on...If a 50 is straight out and back do we want to send marshalls up to 25 miles away from the HQ/start to wave 29 riders through?
I don't know any event organiser who wants a field of 30 for an open event on a weekend.
I cannot find one good argument for a field so small on any level but I am open to listen to suggestions. |
i would argue differently... the organisers of both the events you have spoke about will know organising on the courses they used will lead to small fields, especially at the times of the year we are talking about...
if the priority for the eagle was to run a 50 with a full field they could have picked either the e2/50b or the e2/50c... both would have got big fields... they wouldn't have been able to use their club hut as an hq tho...
Cambridge t&c could have used the e2/25 that would have undoubtedly got a full field....
so is timetrialling dead or would people rather jump in their car & travel to an event that they want to ride???
http://cyclingtimetrials.org.uk/Default.aspx?&ge390__geka=8sW2Q7VKZmF8CUWP7ygm7riwpLFKNCEAIlX03Hp4_FhPDrktfqfkoQzxx15QQk__LJO6vHkx-_V4xg5asR2FWg&ge390__gevi=bkosVTEcmXX5ekdECVvBmA&gv391__gvac=2&gv391__gvff0=2859&gv391__gvfl0=0&language=en-GB&tabid=62
120 returned entries afaik
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