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Are you happy having the National Squad, ODP riders or anyone else form composite teams at the National Team Pursuit and Olympic Sprint so that the other "proper" club teams stand absoloutely no chance of placing? |
Yes |
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13% |
[ 2 ] |
No |
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73% |
[ 11 ] |
Not really fussed! |
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13% |
[ 2 ] |
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Total Votes : 15 |
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Gary K Div 1 Pro
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Joined: 27 Feb 2002 Posts: 7115 Location: Toowoomba, Queensland, in Sunny Australia!!!
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Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 12:14 pm Post subject: Team Pursuit and Olympic Sprint Poll |
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Let's see if Willi's rationale holds up under scrutiny from statistics!
Last edited by Gary K on Thu Oct 12, 2006 1:10 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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Gary K Div 1 Pro
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Joined: 27 Feb 2002 Posts: 7115 Location: Toowoomba, Queensland, in Sunny Australia!!!
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Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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I posted no and I am one of the agiskoviner representatives and my real name is Gary Kristensen MBE BEng (Hons) !
Last edited by Gary K on Thu Oct 12, 2006 12:38 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Megman Div 2 Pro
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Joined: 11 Jul 2003 Posts: 5786 Location: Not in Lich any more
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Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 12:24 pm Post subject: |
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I posted no. I didn't and haven't ridden the nationals but I have ridden the divs TP a few times and even have a medal for it somewhere. |
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Billynobrakes Div 1 Pro
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Joined: 30 Apr 2003 Posts: 7147 Location: Newark on Trent
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Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 12:24 pm Post subject: |
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Can we get this as a sticky and invite as many people as possible to vote, whatever your personal interest in track racing TP / TS.
Lets see what a balanced vote really looks like - personally I think that VR must represent a pretty accurate cross section of the cycling community. _________________ Blame me for robbing Peter but don't you blame Paul |
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Billynobrakes Div 1 Pro
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Joined: 30 Apr 2003 Posts: 7147 Location: Newark on Trent
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Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 12:25 pm Post subject: |
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Gary - just a thought, perhaps the question could be seen as a little bit leading in some eyes? _________________ Blame me for robbing Peter but don't you blame Paul |
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Gary K Div 1 Pro
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Joined: 27 Feb 2002 Posts: 7115 Location: Toowoomba, Queensland, in Sunny Australia!!!
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Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 12:27 pm Post subject: |
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I've had a think and this is the question that is being posed via the other thread, so it is representative of the arguement. You either do or you don't or don't care. Without the composite teams the competition would be so much fairer and within the spirit of competing.
I hear what people are saying about comparing yourselves to the best, but if the squad had been given an exhibiton ride, we'd all know how much faster they can go, and we'd be in the picture.
In my mind, the Glendene Squad should have collected their SECOND gold medal this year, after being beaten by a composite bunch of squad riders last year too. They are a proper club team who race and train together on a daily basis.
I bet they are not happy about it either. Anyone got a contact for them that comes on here?
Last edited by Gary K on Thu Oct 12, 2006 12:43 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Gary K Div 1 Pro
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Joined: 27 Feb 2002 Posts: 7115 Location: Toowoomba, Queensland, in Sunny Australia!!!
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Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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Megman wrote: |
I posted no. I didn't and haven't ridden the nationals but I have ridden the divs TP a few times and even have a medal for it somewhere. |
And your real name is, just for Willi's sake? |
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KJ T de F Winner
Joined: 18 May 2005 Posts: 26400
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Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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I voted no and my name is Karen Jane Wyld. I've not ridden the Nationals but I have raced on the track and I have been a member of a BC Commission in the past. |
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Billynobrakes Div 1 Pro
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Joined: 30 Apr 2003 Posts: 7147 Location: Newark on Trent
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Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 12:32 pm Post subject: |
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Simon Allen - Sheffield Phoenix CC voted - NO _________________ Blame me for robbing Peter but don't you blame Paul |
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McDonalds E, Silver
Joined: 07 Jul 2005 Posts: 783
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Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 12:49 pm Post subject: tp |
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JMc, it really hurts me to ask you a favour ..... BUT....... as i was posting the fone went and I got destracted, in your role as VR police please can you check my vote. I should have voted NO. I would just say one thing though, Gary, I disagree with the wording of the question, I have no greater gripe with the WCPP or ODP forming a composite squad any more that I would any other composite collective, Im sure you understand why I have to point this out. I represent PCA and Tony Gibb. |
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George Gilbert Div 3 Pro
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Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 12:58 pm Post subject: |
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Billynobrakes wrote: |
Gary - just a thought, perhaps the question could be seen as a little bit leading in some eyes? |
You should really remove the reference to the National Squad / ODP from the question - it's allegedly not relevant (people are happy-ish being beaten in the individual events by squad members). The key issue seems to be arbitary composites.
I'd suggest a more balanced question would be:
"Do you think that composite teams (made up from riders that are first claim members of different cycling clubs) should be allowed to race in the Team Pursuit / Team Sprint events in the National Championships?"
I don't think it's reasonable to suggest banning a very specific group of people from an open event - you should either go for allowing all composites or none.
Last edited by George Gilbert on Thu Oct 12, 2006 1:01 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Richard Kennedy Div 3 Pro
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Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 12:58 pm Post subject: |
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I've declined to vote given the wording of the question. It is not ONLY the ODP/WCPP that can form composites. That privelege is open to all, unfortunately only one non-national squad team took up that opportunity (Composite E in the team sprint, which including 2 veloriders members). Perhaps in future years, as more riders are aware of the rule change, we'll see far more riders who aren't in large teams taking the opportunity to ride these events as composites. From a personal point of view, I ride for a club with some decent riders but none of them hard track sprinters (sorry Martin ), if I wished to stand even a remote chance of doing a good ride in the team sprint then I'd have to change club (which I have no intention of doing as my clubmates are also my friends) or form a composite. |
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martin smith World Champ
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Joined: 09 Jun 2003 Posts: 12187 Location: shoehorning kittens into jars
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Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 12:59 pm Post subject: |
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Dogtanian wrote: |
Billynobrakes wrote: |
Gary - just a thought, perhaps the question could be seen as a little bit leading in some eyes? |
You should really remove the reference to the National Squad / ODP from the question - it's allegedly not relevant (people are happy-ish being beaten in the individual events by squad members). The key issue seems to be arbitary composites.
I'd suggest a more balanced question would be:
"Do you think that composite teams (made up from riders that are members of different cycling clubs) should not be allowed to race in the Team Pursuit / Team Sprint events in the National Championships?"
It would read better to remove the "not" from the question, but that would reverse the sense of the existing question and so the responses so far!
I don't think it's reasonable to suggest banning a very specific group of people from an open event - you should either go for allowing all composites or none. |
yep. i agree with the above. can we re-do the poll? _________________ Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes. |
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T12OTT E, Bronze
Joined: 31 May 2005 Posts: 406 Location: Floating upto the Roundhouse, before going to Croydon
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Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 1:01 pm Post subject: |
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Adrian Trott - Voted No
But two comment:
If everyone is so against the composite teams why did any of the clubs enter teams? Why not just boycott the event, job done.
Secondly how will you then counter the "super teams" They already exist, isn't the Re-cycling development squad the U-23 National Sqaud, Glendene is this years ODP, Composite B (basicly Dolan/le Coq plus 1) looks like next years ODP. And SIS-Trek has 2/3rds (maybe all) of the Womens TP squad.
Whilst I don't agree with what has been done it is going to happen in someway 'cos these squads need/want to ride together in competition. |
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martin smith World Champ
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Joined: 09 Jun 2003 Posts: 12187 Location: shoehorning kittens into jars
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Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 1:02 pm Post subject: |
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Richard Kennedy wrote: |
, I ride for a club with some decent riders but none of them hard track sprinters (sorry Martin ), if I wished to stand even a remote chance of doing a good ride in the team sprint then I'd have to change club . |
nah, just get that brother of yours fit, i'll do the first lap (you can't complain too much at 19.2 ss 250 surely?), you do the second and steve can do the third.
dreams... ![Laughing](images/smiles/icon_lol.gif) _________________ Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes. |
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Gary K Div 1 Pro
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Joined: 27 Feb 2002 Posts: 7115 Location: Toowoomba, Queensland, in Sunny Australia!!!
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Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 1:04 pm Post subject: |
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T12OTT wrote: |
Adrian Trott - Voted No
But two comment:
If everyone is so against the composite teams why did any of the clubs enter teams? Why not just boycott the event, job done.
Secondly how will you then counter the "super teams" They already exist, isn't the Re-cycling development squad the U-23 National Sqaud, Glendene is this years ODP, Composite B (basicly Dolan/le Coq plus 1) looks like next years ODP. And SIS-Trek has 2/3rds (maybe all) of the Womens TP squad.
Whilst I don't agree with what has been done it is going to happen in someway 'cos these squads need/want to ride together in competition. |
And most, if not all, have no problem with that, because at least their sponsors are getting value for money from their results, same as from Glendene and PCA. If SiS want to "buy up" all the better female and male talent to win team titles, then that is up to them and fair play to them. |
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Gary K Div 1 Pro
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Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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Please cast your vote on the other, better worded poll. This one is locked, but still remains, as there are some valid points on it. |
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