National Team Pursuit / Olympic Sprint poll

[Richard Kennedy]

Richard Kennedy - Chesterfield Coureurs. I vote YES shock horror, I disagree with people!

I'd be quite happy with the principle of a team pursuit championships for CLUB teams if that was actually realistic. In reality though it's never been the case, go back as far as you like in the history of the track champs and you'll find riders changing club at short notice for no reason other than the team pursuit. That certainly wasn't within the spirit of the existing rules, even if technically it was allowable. It basically meant that if you were willing to shaft your clubmates or sell yourself to the highest bidder then you'd be in with a chance in the team pursuit. Only recently there was a case of 2 riders who changed club just before the track nationals so that they could ride a team pursuit then immediately reverted back to their original club. They were to all intents and purposes a composite team yet this was perfectly allowable under the existing rules. The decision to allow composites merely accepts this reality and opens up this possibility to all those who wish to ride but don't wish to change club to do it. If you wish to get rid of the composite ruling then you need to find a way to plug the existing loopholes, otherwise the very same riders will still be free to ride together just like they always have done!

To sum up? I think this actually brings more integrity to the event, at least we can see who is a composite rather than previously when we had to guess at who was "pretending to be a team".

hmmm, that's just opened a HUGE can of worms

[Billy Boy]

[legro]

I vote NO
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[Martin Mac]

I can see the point of the composite teams and in some ways it is a good thing as one of my guys actually got to ride the Team Sprint because all the old boys were all worn out by the time the nationals came around. He got to face off against the big boys which he is buzzing from.

The Squad, U23 and Juniors aren't really composite "TEAMS" though are they as they are riding and racing together day in day out. Just because they don't have the same club/team on their licence.

I was in LA last week and went to watch the US nationals. They had some good racing, they have composite teams as well and it seems to work. Nice facility though!!

In some ways I suppose we should feel proud that we now have so many riders capable of going that fast from juniors upwards.

In the spirit of things I vote no because I'm sure the riders didnt get together and say, hey! Lets all ride the nationals together. We all know the bosses would do that for them. It is a great idea it adds value to the event but just needs a little work.

Martin McCrossan Team TrackCycling.co.uk and PR Manager Plowman Craven RT
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[Menkalist2]

Martin Osman - MJS Racing (Composite Z)

I voted 'not fussed'

I just love riding the TP at the nationals and trying to do a PB, so It makes no odds to me if we come 6th or 26th!

I would like to see the champs limited to proper clubs/teams, but I kind of agree with Richard Kennedy, that whatever happens to the rules, the fastest group of riders/mates will get together and form a super team. The only way to win or get a medal is to get faster! (and be with 3 other equally fast riders!).

I do feel for teams like Agisko and Raphael who always seem to be just out of the medals as I know if I kept coming 4th/5th every year and not getting a medal it would be frustrating. On the other hand the key point is that they haven't won a medal recently because they have been beaten by faster riders.

Maybe the solution to keep people happier would be to classify the results differently e.g. Keep the Nationals as they are but identify teams as Amatuer or Professional and Composite or Team. The medals would still go to the fastest 3 times, but at least the results would say 'fastest Amateur Team' and 'fastest composite professional team' etc. I know we can all do this classification in our heads but maybe certificates for the first 3 in each category would be nice... I'll get me coat!

(I suppose the trouble would be all the argueing and BS over who is classified at professional and having to prove that you have to spend at least 35 hours a week doing something other than training/racing )

I do feel though that the results of the Nationals should represent the known fastest riders/teams in the country otherwise they will be de-valued. It would not be a great feeling winning a medal knowing that the fastest 3 or 4 composite/wcpp teams had been banned from riding on some technicality

Anyway, if composite teams are going to remain, then i feel at least they should have to come up with a (reasonably sensible) name, as having 'composite A' on the trophy for the next ten years is going to look sh!te They should also have to wear matching kit... The TP was fine, but the Team Sprint looked a mess
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[Paul H.]

Paul Harwood Nottingham Clarion CC voted no.
Every time a composite team wins a National Title it is a slap in the face for all club members who try to build a team spirit and encourage new riders, and also Team Sponsors who support clubs and hope to get a bit of publicity in return.

[Richard Lodge]

[David Menzies]

I voted yes for the following reasons (not necessarily in any order):

it is consistent with other multi person championships (madison/motor paced/ tandem, etc)

it provides an opportunity for groups of riders such as the Scottish Development Squad to participate in a true competitive environment

it provides an opportunity for riders from smaller / not so strong clubs to compete in these events

it is a practical way of dealing with the fact that composite teams will always exist albeit they may be fabricated into looking like a traditional club/team at the time

[KJ]

Would it make a difference if the title of the race omitted the word TEAM?

As I understand it the original title was Club Team Pursuit .

[George Gilbert]

[KJ]

No the National event used to be called the Club Team Pursuit as I understand it. I may be wrong of course.

[Billynobrakes]

[George Gilbert]

[BryanTaylor]

I can’t really vote either way on the present vote. As I’ve written on here many times before, my club were behind the original move to increase participation in team events by allowing division teams to ride, thereby giving a chance to riders from small local clubs to ride the event, & train & prepare for it at their local track in the same way a club team would do. We felt this was a better solution than riders switching clubs 5 mins before an event, which had gone on for years by the bigger sponsored clubs & was the only way we could ride the event the year we got silver. If 4 academy riders live in Manchester & are on different teams domestically, then that’s fine if they want to ride for North West division, whether they are or aren’t on any GB squad isn’t an issue. So on that basis my answer would be a yes. However, we never perceived the idea that in a short space of time there would be Composite A on the trophy which I think really devalues the competition, so although I believe non club teams should be allowed to ride, it should be restricted to genuine division teams to retain some credibility to the event, so I don’t agree with it in the current format.

I still think this is a small part of the bigger changes in NTC including the issue of the date of the champs, & the question still remains as to whether the NTC is there for a high numbers of members to be able to compete in to the best of their ability, or a smaller elite event that contains only the very best (mostly full time) riders.

And in answer to Willi’s question about the difference if any between the events, I guess it’s a simple one of it being in the name. the Derny is not the Team Derny champs, Madison is not the Team Madison, but Team Sprint & Team Pursuit are, which suggests a team rather than a number of individuals. However, I’d be interested to know what younger riders think of this as we need to be careful that we are not opposing change because ‘we’ve always done it that way’. Club structures have changed in a big way in recent years, I’m not a fan of that either as it means many of the kids are in small ‘sponsored’ teams & often missing out on the benefits from being in a proper club (& therefore might well not see any need for team events to be for clubs only & be happy to ride with their friends irrespective of club), though sadly a number of clubs have not moved with the times either, so it’s chicken & egg a little.

[racyrich2]

Lots of little unrelated thoughts...

The Glendene - I don't quite know why anyone would think they were the first 'club' team. The junior team is nothing to do with the club. The team operates outside of the club rules, has its own separate sponsors, and sofaras track is concerned is now mainly composed of riders who live either in Cardiff or Isle of Man - not too close to Brentwood, *CENSORED*. And have a team manager (do you know many clubs that have a team manager?) also from IoM. Nor do these riders join up at the start of the season, they are bought in at a moment's notice according to the whim of the sponsor.

Second thought - would we have the same discussion if the event was the National 3up TT on the road?

Third thought - not sure if it's still the case, but the RTTC had a rule preventing riders being in more than one team during the season sofaras team championships went, a bit like a footballer being cup-tied. A rider could ride each champs for whatever team he was currently in, but if he'd got a team prize along the way that was the only team he could win another team prize for.
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[Craig Taylor]

No - Craig Taylor - Beeston RC

[hunterbark]

[racyrich2]

[Billynobrakes]

Some interesting reading from BC Handbook Bye - Laws:

[martin smith]