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| Total Votes : 59 |
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Des
Moderator
Joined: 19 Apr 2002
Posts: 16900
Location: Harrow
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 Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 9:59 am Post subject: |
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| the shadowy darkforces wrote: |
| i dont think that the current reality is -take d r u g s or loose. Are there any facts as too how much these products improve performance |
Riis' TdF win
Pantani's TdF win
Ulrichs Palmares
Millar's Worlds TT win
Landis's TDF possible win
Vino's stage wins
Etc...
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Festina_Lente
E, Bronze
Joined: 14 May 2007
Posts: 317
Location: Algarve
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| Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 10:05 am Post subject: |
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The idea would be to monitor them, and prevent them taking things to far.
It is true that those with an objection to d r u g s would be more or less required to use them, however transparency would prevail. Also, what I believe the current sittuation results in, is two races in one. The users up front and the other, equaly talented, but honest riders out the back.
It is possible to race clean, the problem is that not all do, or will do.
No system is perfect, but a system where transparency has to prevail is better in my eyes. Honesty first. |
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tis
E, Silver
Joined: 02 May 2006
Posts: 1603
Location: Up to my eyes in shit
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| Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 10:14 am Post subject: |
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How about a two tier pro cycling system?
One for the people who want to ride clean (UCI) and one for those who want to go use 'help' - (JUCI) 
Personally even if it were allowed I wouldn't touch them, I don't even like taking paracetemol. So if I were good enough to think about going pro (only in my dreams) I'd be considerably disadvantaged.
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Turismo
E, Silver
Joined: 27 Apr 2006
Posts: 1511
Location: Ealing
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| Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 10:19 am Post subject: |
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| Ban water. It enhances performance, and it's dangerous if you drink too much of it. |
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Zeco2
E, Gold
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 2190
Location: Prickwillow
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| Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 11:43 am Post subject: |
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| Roy Gardiner wrote: |
I'm not going to delete this thread.
- In sport, drugs must not be legalised.
- In real life, drugs must be legalised.
Good 'ere innit? |
If it was simply a matter of personal choice, fine, unfortunately the effect that d r u g taking has on the addict's friends and family - not to mention those who suffer at the hands of the same adict's activities - whether (for example) driving under the influence or in the perpetration of crime to fund their adiction.
If it were not those considerations, let the adicts just kill themselves and the traders get rich in the process. 
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Roy Gardiner
T de F Winner
Joined: 14 Jul 2003
Posts: 21249
Location: London and Essex
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| Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 11:53 am Post subject: |
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| Zeco2 wrote: |
| Roy Gardiner wrote: |
| - In real life, drugs must be legalised. |
If it was simply a matter of personal choice, fine, unfortunately the effect that d r u g taking has on the addict's friends and family - not to mention those who suffer at the hands of the same adict's activities - whether (for example) driving under the influence or in the perpetration of crime to fund their adiction.
If it were not those considerations, let the adicts just kill themselves and the traders get rich in the process. |
All these things are worsened by the current prohibition regime.
- Traders get very rich. And they are crooks already becoming rich crooks.
- Junkies kill themselves, from taking incorrect unknown doses to re-using needles.
Legalisation improves all these outcomes.
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"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken
"Everything in war is simple, but the simplest thing is difficult." Carl Von Clausewitz |
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racyrich2
E, Gold
Joined: 17 Sep 2004
Posts: 3123
Location: Essex
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david123
E, Silver
Joined: 11 Apr 2007
Posts: 1868
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| Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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| IainW wrote: |
| what next? Go Ride club enlists the help of modern day Dr Josef Mengele. |
I have decided not to use that name as it has unfortunate connatations,instead im going to go with "Mickeyed Mouse" because though altered in such a way as to resemble a cartoon character he can still be trapped and fed to the lines of whatever it is I must take to write this stuff.
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Joursans
Div 2 Pro
Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Posts: 4840
Location: The Whole Year Inn
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| Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 12:06 pm Post subject: |
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Would it be fairer to make PED's compulsory?
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even as I drive there. |
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david123
E, Silver
Joined: 11 Apr 2007
Posts: 1868
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| Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Roy Gardiner wrote: |
| Zeco2 wrote: |
| Roy Gardiner wrote: |
| - In real life, drugs must be legalised. |
If it was simply a matter of personal choice, fine, unfortunately the effect that d r u g taking has on the addict's friends and family - not to mention those who suffer at the hands of the same adict's activities - whether (for example) driving under the influence or in the perpetration of crime to fund their adiction.
If it were not those considerations, let the adicts just kill themselves and the traders get rich in the process. :roll: |
All these things are worsened by the current prohibition regime.
- Traders get very rich. And they are crooks already becoming rich crooks.
- Junkies kill themselves, from taking incorrect unknown doses to re-using needles.
Legalisation improves all these outcomes. |
Mother Teresa reused needles on the children with the wonderful byline "whatever gods will is". Obviously it wasnt herself that did it as the shakes brought on by Albanian rocket vodka put paid to that. Soon to be a saint and as reality doesnt interfere with that process I dont think wishing them Gods speed would be helpful as there noses would end up needing a halo.
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hed
World Champ
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 12377
Location: on my hoods.
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| Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 12:12 pm Post subject: |
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| david123 wrote: |
Mother Teresa reused needles on the children with the wonderful byline "whatever gods will is". Obviously it wasnt herself that did it as the shakes brought on by Albanian rocket vodka put paid to that. Soon to be a saint and as reality doesnt interfere with that process I dont think wishing them Gods speed would be helpful as there noses would end up needing a halo. |
 
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DNAse
E, Gold
Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 2414
Location: Oxfordshire
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| Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 12:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Roy Gardiner wrote: |
| Zeco2 wrote: |
| Roy Gardiner wrote: |
| - In real life, drugs must be legalised. |
If it was simply a matter of personal choice, fine, unfortunately the effect that d r u g taking has on the addict's friends and family - not to mention those who suffer at the hands of the same adict's activities - whether (for example) driving under the influence or in the perpetration of crime to fund their adiction.
If it were not those considerations, let the adicts just kill themselves and the traders get rich in the process. |
All these things are worsened by the current prohibition regime.
- Traders get very rich. And they are crooks already becoming rich crooks.
- Junkies kill themselves, from taking incorrect unknown doses to re-using needles.
Legalisation improves all these outcomes. |
At the risk of starting on a different debate, I can't agree.
Probably the most damaging d-rug in our society is alcohol which is legal. The fact that it is legal doesn't stop people from abusing it. There is evidence (I will try and find it) that the late-licencing (relaxation of alcohol controls) has lead to an increase in consumption and the resultant problems (health damage, anti-social behaviour etc). I cannot see how the legalisation of currently prohibited d-rugs will lead to anything other than an increase in consumption which with the health and social implications has to be a bad thing IMO.
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sterudsdad
Cat 1 Groupie
Joined: 21 Sep 2006
Posts: 124
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| Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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| In body building I think they have solved this problem by having some competitions where it is legal to use and some where it is not. If it is legal then performance is related to how much your doctor is prepared to take a risk with the riders health in order to make a reputation. |
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tis
E, Silver
Joined: 02 May 2006
Posts: 1603
Location: Up to my eyes in shit
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| Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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| DNAse wrote: |
At the risk of starting on a different debate, I can't agree.
Probably the most damaging d-rug in our society is alcohol which is legal. The fact that it is legal doesn't stop people from abusing it. There is evidence (I will try and find it) that the late-licencing (relaxation of alcohol controls) has lead to an increase in consumption and the resultant problems (health damage, anti-social behaviour etc). I cannot see how the legalisation of currently prohibited d-rugs will lead to anything other than an increase in consumption which with the health and social implications has to be a bad thing IMO. |
Debate started 
Regarding alcohol I think its more an issue of culture more than any other factor. Quite a large number of British and Irish people drink to get absolutely hammered and I've rarely see this anywhere else. I don't think longer licensing will effect the drinking habit of the nation. Alcohol is freely availible in Spain for example almost whenever you want it but you rarely see people really drunk (unless they're foreign ) Don't get me wrong, they still drink a lot but not 10 pints in a few hours. In most other places people seem to drink to loosen up, here the culture is drink to get plastered. Men and women are 3 and 5 times more likely to binge drink here than in France or Spain.
I'm still getting emails from my friends on Monday mornings detailing just how fooked they got at the weekend and how they're dying now. Most of these people are in their late 20's/early 30's, own property and are all-round nice, respectable people but come the weekend - they get obliterated. Apparently making yourself sick and punishing yourself is a badge of honour to be worn proudly. Personally I don't get it but then again I didn't drink for a very long time which I'm reliably told is 'g ay'. Thats just the drinking culture in this part of the world I think.
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DNAse
E, Gold
Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 2414
Location: Oxfordshire
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| Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 2:28 pm Post subject: |
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| tis wrote: |
| DNAse wrote: |
At the risk of starting on a different debate, I can't agree.
Probably the most damaging d-rug in our society is alcohol which is legal. The fact that it is legal doesn't stop people from abusing it. There is evidence (I will try and find it) that the late-licencing (relaxation of alcohol controls) has lead to an increase in consumption and the resultant problems (health damage, anti-social behaviour etc). I cannot see how the legalisation of currently prohibited d-rugs will lead to anything other than an increase in consumption which with the health and social implications has to be a bad thing IMO. |
Debate started
Regarding alcohol I think its more an issue of culture more than any other factor. Quite a large number of British and Irish people drink to get absolutely hammered and I've rarely see this anywhere else. I don't think longer licensing will effect the drinking habit of the nation. Alcohol is freely availible in Spain for example almost whenever you want it but you rarely see people really drunk (unless they're foreign ) Don't get me wrong, they still drink a lot but not 10 pints in a few hours. In most other places people seem to drink to loosen up, here the culture is drink to get plastered. Men and women are 3 and 5 times more likely to binge drink here than in France or Spain.
I'm still getting emails from my friends on Monday mornings detailing just how fooked they got at the weekend and how they're dying now. Most of these people are in their late 20's/early 30's, own property and are all-round nice, respectable people but come the weekend - they get obliterated. Apparently making yourself sick and punishing yourself is a badge of honour to be worn proudly. Personally I don't get it but then again I didn't drink for a very long time which I'm reliably told is 'g ay'. Thats just the drinking culture in this part of the world I think. |
and moved to here:
http://www.veloriders.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=58183
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jump
Cat 2 Groupie
Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 29
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| Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 2:37 pm Post subject: |
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| sterudsdad wrote: |
| In body building I think they have solved this problem by having some competitions where it is legal to use and some where it is not. If it is legal then performance is related to how much your doctor is prepared to take a risk with the riders health in order to make a reputation. |
Rubbish, they're still juiced in the "natural" comp's.  |
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Tucker
Tour Winner
Joined: 03 May 2006
Posts: 15722
Location: Swindon
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| Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 10:03 pm Post subject: |
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| tis wrote: |
How about a two tier pro cycling system?
One for the people who want to ride clean (UCI) and one for those who want to go use 'help' - (JUCI)
Personally even if it were allowed I wouldn't touch them, I don't even like taking paracetemol. So if I were good enough to think about going pro (only in my dreams) I'd be considerably disadvantaged. |
Good thinking Irish - and the mediocre pros who finish mid pack in the UCI, and mid pack in the JUCI after investing in a *CENSORED*, would do what exactly? Take drugs and ride in the UCI races I hear someone say? |
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