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| Does Contadors DNS in the Tour de France devalue the race and eventual winner? |
| Yes, of course ASO should invite the best |
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61% |
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| No the winner will get the kudos winning to Tour whoever he beats |
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38% |
[ 19 ] |
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| Total Votes : 49 |
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Svetty
E, Bronze
Joined: 17 Jul 2007
Posts: 477
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 Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 9:58 am Post subject: |
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It seems that some people feel that any particularly impressive performance is likely to be 'assisted'. Now this may be true but how do we descriminate between genuine and 'assisted' in the absence of evidence? If an opinion is formed on heresay, rumour, personal likes/dislikes etc etc then the whole thing ceases to have any value - whether the winners are those we support or decry as d o p e r s.
For me I have to believe that what I am seeing is genuine unless it is blatantly out of place. In this context I don't see that Contador is obviously 'on the sauce' so I have to give him the benefit of the doubt.
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Svetty
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Rob of the Og
E, Gold
Joined: 12 Jan 2005
Posts: 2256
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| Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 10:25 am Post subject: |
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| Svetty wrote: |
| For me I have to believe that what I am seeing is genuine unless it is blatantly out of place. In this context I don't see that Contador is obviously 'on the sauce' so I have to give him the benefit of the doubt. |
LOL.
| Operacion Puerto wrote: |
| En el reverso del documento 31 se localizan unas anotaciones manuscritas con el título “INDIVIDUALIZACIÓN” en el que se identifican a distintos corredores del equipo LIBERTY-SEGUROS WÜRTH por sus iniciales: R. H. (Roberto HERAS), M. S. (Marcos SERRANO), J. B. (Joseba BELOKI), I. G. (Igor GONZÁLEZ), A. V. (Ángel VICIOSO), J. J. (Jorg JAKSCHE), A. D. (Alan DAVIS), L. (sin identificar), A. C. (Alberto CONTADOR). |
| Prof Werner Franke wrote: |
| He took insulin, HMG-Lepori, a hormone to stimulate the secretion of testosterone and also a product for asthma called TGN - in brief I have before my eyes a protocol for doping. |
| Le Monde wrote: |
| [contador, during Puerto investigations] also refused to undergo the taking of a DNA sample which would have made it possible to verify whether certain pouches of blood found in the apartments used by Dr. Fuentes for administering autotransfusions were destined for him |
Or read Jorg Jaksche's opinions on Contador here:
http://www.sueddeutsche.de/sport/weitere/artikel/851/125661/ |
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kitch
E, Bronze
Joined: 11 Nov 2004
Posts: 426
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| Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 10:52 am Post subject: |
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regardless of all the who could beat who arguments if so and so was there, all the absences to date have been a result of legitimiate bans or disqualifications.
what's going to play out in this years tour is more in the realm of a race that has been arbitrarily and unjustifiably manipulated by a few of the contrary sort of people i couldnt bare to be in the same room as in paris.
it might not affect the spectator interest, but the podium will lose some prestige and that in turn devalues the race.
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Rob of the Og
E, Gold
Joined: 12 Jan 2005
Posts: 2256
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| Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 11:11 am Post subject: |
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| kitch wrote: |
| regardless of all the who could beat who arguments if so and so was there, all the absences to date have been a result of legitimiate bans or disqualifications. |
Nope. Basso, Ullrich and Vinokourov were missing in 2006 purely on the basis that their (or even just their teammates') names were on the Puerto list. Contador's name was on the same list but he keeps riding.
Rass was withdrawn by his team under pressure last year not banned or DQ'd.
It's apparently arbitrary. Some guys get a ban and can come back; some are hounded into retirement; while Contador and Valverde happily keep riding. All we deserve is a level playing field where either people linked to doping are all kicked out or all allowed to ride until they test positive. |
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Svetty
E, Bronze
Joined: 17 Jul 2007
Posts: 477
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| Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 12:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Rob of the Og wrote: |
| Svetty wrote: |
| For me I have to believe that what I am seeing is genuine unless it is blatantly out of place. In this context I don't see that Contador is obviously 'on the sauce' so I have to give him the benefit of the doubt. |
LOL.
| Operacion Puerto wrote: |
| En el reverso del documento 31 se localizan unas anotaciones manuscritas con el título “INDIVIDUALIZACIÓN” en el que se identifican a distintos corredores del equipo LIBERTY-SEGUROS WÜRTH por sus iniciales: R. H. (Roberto HERAS), M. S. (Marcos SERRANO), J. B. (Joseba BELOKI), I. G. (Igor GONZÁLEZ), A. V. (Ángel VICIOSO), J. J. (Jorg JAKSCHE), A. D. (Alan DAVIS), L. (sin identificar), A. C. (Alberto CONTADOR). |
| Prof Werner Franke wrote: |
| He took insulin, HMG-Lepori, a hormone to stimulate the secretion of testosterone and also a product for asthma called TGN - in brief I have before my eyes a protocol for doping. |
| Le Monde wrote: |
| [contador, during Puerto investigations] also refused to undergo the taking of a DNA sample which would have made it possible to verify whether certain pouches of blood found in the apartments used by Dr. Fuentes for administering autotransfusions were destined for him |
Or read Jorg Jaksche's opinions on Contador here:
http://www.sueddeutsche.de/sport/weitere/artikel/851/125661/ |
I didn't say he wasn't on it then - simply that his current performances aren't spectacular enough to make me confidently think he is now. Now Sella is a different matter......
Ideally Puerto would be open wide and bans applied to all those guilty but until that happens I believe we have to go on current fact and not past suspicion.
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The Devil's Advocate |
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Svetty
E, Bronze
Joined: 17 Jul 2007
Posts: 477
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| Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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Incidentally the fact that a country's SGB/judiciary were less than dedicated to pursuing Puerto is - for me - another reason why the idea of a BC controlled National team isn't sound.
I'm sure none of our current riders or BC officials etc would stoop to d o p ing or conspire to hide it but hypothetically could this happen in future - or is this only the sort of thing Johnny Foreigner would do?
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Svetty
The Devil's Advocate |
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