| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| What percentage of the peleton are still on the juice? |
| 10% |
|
19% |
[ 20 ] |
| 25% |
|
34% |
[ 36 ] |
| 50% |
|
17% |
[ 18 ] |
| 75% |
|
21% |
[ 22 ] |
| 100% |
|
6% |
[ 7 ] |
|
| Total Votes : 103 |
|
| Author |
Message |
B_Ugli
Cat 1 Groupie
Joined: 27 Feb 2008
Posts: 151
|
 Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 11:44 am Post subject: What percentage of the peleton are still on the juice? |
 |
|
| After all the recent debacles of recent years, just how many are still on it? |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
George Gilbert
Div 3 Pro
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
Posts: 4159
Location: Somewhere, over the rainbow
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 1:12 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Wot no 0% option??? Shurely some mishtake...  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
George Gilbert
Div 3 Pro
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
Posts: 4159
Location: Somewhere, over the rainbow
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 1:13 pm Post subject: |
|
|
More sensibly, I guess it depends on what you mean by "on it".
- If you mean how many people are doing something that, if they were tested by a test that accurately checked for the "allowed" level of things in your body would fail the test - I reckon it's somewhere around the 25% mark, probably less. I'd like to think that most of the peleton know what's allowed and stay within the permitted zone even if there isn't currently a test to detect a given banned substance.
- If you mean how many people are doing something that you or I would consider to be against the spirit (if not letter) of the anti-doping rules then I reckon it's somewhere around the 75% mark, probably more. I reckon the practice of topping yourself up (i.e. if a positive dope test is declared at 25mg of a given substance in your body, then taking 24mg to get some benefit, but still return a negative dope test) is "normal practice".
There's a fine line between "doing the best you can within the rules" and anything that might be considered "sporting". |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dockeca
Div 2 Pro
Joined: 27 Feb 2002
Posts: 4741
Location: halfway up the South Downs - or halfway down the South Ups!
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 2:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
George, that's a problem for the rule makers, not the riders and helpers. Indeed dave Brailsford is quoted as saying that GB do everything they can within the rules to achieve their targets, and the team is clean.
For example, a while back caffeine had a limit, now removed. So you can have as much as you want until it has, er, unfortunate effects on the lower parts of the digestive system.
So far as the professional peloton is concerned, I would expect that the number of riders attempting to evade the tests is dropping fast, the advent of blood profiling and bio-passports has made life very awkward indeed.
What I would like to see is TOTALLY independent testing and analysis with all results being published once findings - in either direction - are confirmed. No UCI, no FFC, and no other governing bodies in ANY sport allowed to interfere. Then we have a chance to fully clean up ALL sport.
_________________
Doc
"Any views expressed are entirely my own and not representative of any organisation of which I may or may not be a member. Unless I say otherwise."
"A Libertarian Crackpot" H.Peel |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
B_Ugli
Cat 1 Groupie
Joined: 27 Feb 2008
Posts: 151
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 3:08 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| George Gilbert wrote: |
| There's a fine line between "doing the best you can within the rules" and anything that might be considered "sporting". |
You are spot on with that comment. Lets face it, if you have ever ridden 100miles plus at a fair lick you will understand how much it takes out of you. Some people take a few days to recover from that and a Tour rider is doing that day in day out for three weeks.
Baring in mind most mortals gear up on pasta, energy drink and vitamins/supplements I reckon there is a grey area between this level of preparation and taking EPO. That area I believe is where most Pro's who claim to be clean are. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
George Gilbert
Div 3 Pro
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
Posts: 4159
Location: Somewhere, over the rainbow
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 4:28 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| dockeca wrote: |
| George, that's a problem for the rule makers, not the riders and helpers. Indeed dave Brailsford is quoted as saying that GB do everything they can within the rules to achieve their targets, and the team is clean. |
Quite so - it all depends on the definition of "clean"; and that's a problem for the rule makers.
If clean is defined as within the rules, then that's one perfectly good definition (and the one to which I expect - hope - the vast majority of athletes fall within). I strongly suspect however that your average-tv-watching-daily-mail-reading-member-of-the-public has a considerably broader definition.
For example, if Wiggins was sitting in the gate at the start of the Olympic pursuit final, with the world's TV cameras trained on him and Brailsford runs up to him and forces feeds a dozen expressos into him - would that really be *considered* clean (even if it was within the rules and therefore *by definition* is clean)?
Of course, the problem is how do you define a rule that says that the above example is not OK, but giving him a sip of water is. To the public eye it's blindingly obvious when something is "not on", but writing a definition on paper that would withstand a legal challenge - that's a whole different ball game. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
gswarbrick
E, Gold
Joined: 14 Jun 2005
Posts: 2478
Location: Why would anyone care?
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 4:40 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| George Gilbert wrote: |
| Of course, the problem is how do you define a rule that says that the above example is not OK, but giving him a sip of water is. To the public eye it's blindingly obvious when something is "not on", but writing a definition on paper that would withstand a legal challenge - that's a whole different ball game. |
To add to the difficulty, you have to consider why you want riders to be 'clean' in the first place. Some of the substances and methods on the banned list have serious health implications and it's hard to argue that they shouldn't be banned (although you could the extend the same argument to, say, mountain descents). But the main reason given for it is to provide 'a level playing field'.
In the pro peloton things get evened out a little, but if we really wanted a level playing for the Olympics, we'd have to deal with levels of funding, training facilities, time available for training, budget to go and train at altitude etc etc. And we'd have to ensure everyone ate the same quantities of the same foods at the same time. And got the same amount of sleep. And if we were really serious we'd have some criteria for RHR and VO2 and lung capacity and exclude 'freaks' outside the normal range.
I'm glad it isn't my problem to solve...
_________________
Guy Swarbrick
Editor
trackcycling
http://www.trackcycling.me.uk
You can also follow me on Twitter - gswarbrick and trackcycling |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dockeca
Div 2 Pro
Joined: 27 Feb 2002
Posts: 4741
Location: halfway up the South Downs - or halfway down the South Ups!
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 7:34 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Ah now, RHR and VO2 max are something you tend to be born with, so it's the luck of genetics. Not to be even considered, it's what defines champions versus us lesser mortals. Just luck, but only if the gifted have the resolve to actually develop their gifts to te fullest potential. The human race is the level field, take a datum line at average and there will always be those above and those below. This I know from looking upwards at the line!
_________________
Doc
"Any views expressed are entirely my own and not representative of any organisation of which I may or may not be a member. Unless I say otherwise."
"A Libertarian Crackpot" H.Peel |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mho
Div 1 Pro
Joined: 28 Jul 2003
Posts: 9577
Location: going round the banking
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 7:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| dockeca wrote: |
| What I would like to see is TOTALLY independent testing and analysis with all results being published once findings - in either direction - are confirmed. No UCI, no FFC, and no other governing bodies in ANY sport allowed to interfere. Then we have a chance to fully clean up ALL sport. |
That is exactly what Damsgaard at CSC/Astana did with the CSC result. I've seen a graph somewhere there was a link from cyclingnews.com.
The same guy who is saying that the EPO test is flawed. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Pantani
E, Silver
Joined: 19 Feb 2006
Posts: 904
Location: Notts
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 10:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| mho wrote: |
| dockeca wrote: |
| What I would like to see is TOTALLY independent testing and analysis with all results being published once findings - in either direction - are confirmed. No UCI, no FFC, and no other governing bodies in ANY sport allowed to interfere. Then we have a chance to fully clean up ALL sport. |
That is exactly what Damsgaard at CSC/Astana did with the CSC result. I've seen a graph somewhere there was a link from cyclingnews.com.
The same guy who is saying that the EPO test is flawed. |
Define independent? Wasn't it Bruyneel that said the team paid $300, 000 dollars for this "independent" testing. How independent is that then?
_________________
Don't train, it makes you too tired to race. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
eastway82
Div 3 Pro
Joined: 20 Nov 2006
Posts: 3965
Location: Normandy, France
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 10:18 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Pantani wrote: |
Define independent? Wasn't it Bruyneel that said the team paid $300, 000 dollars for this "independent" testing. How independent is that then? |
It's as independent as when you pay however much it is these days for an MoT - you're paying for it, you get the result. what you don't get is the chance to manipulate the result, as you would if, say, you just looked at the car and filled in a questionnaire which asked, 'Do your brakes work? Y/N etc. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
Important Notice: VeloRiders copyrights all images appearing
on this website and in the Gallery. Images are displayed for viewing only,
and commercial or personal use of any of these images without the written
permission of VeloRiders is prohibited under international copyright law.
Copyright 2002/2013 VeloRiders. All rights reserved.
Powered by phpBB
© 2001, 2002 phpBB Group
E-mail VeloRiders. Comments, questions or send your photos
to , Order your photos@
