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| Should Ricco be 'Banned for Life'? |
| YES |
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[ 53 ] |
| NO |
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[ 46 ] |
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| Total Votes : 99 |
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gswarbrick
E, Gold
Joined: 14 Jun 2005
Posts: 2478
Location: Why would anyone care?
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 Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 4:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Turismo wrote: |
| gswarbrick wrote: |
| throwing out whole teams when when rider fails a test, to be consistent with the ban on a team that shares nothing but a sponsor with a team that had *CENSORED* problems in the past... |
I assume this is in reference to Astana. Did you know that of their squad of thirty riders, seventeen were part of last year's "dirty" Astana? And hey, the team ownership has stayed the same too. And last year they made the exact same argument before bringing massive controversy to the Tour for the second year running. |
OK, let's take that as a starting point. Now tell me why the 'tough on *CENSORED*, tough on the causes of *CENSORED*' ASO decided not to mess up its flagship race part way through by throwing teams out this year?
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mho
Div 1 Pro
Joined: 28 Jul 2003
Posts: 9577
Location: going round the banking
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 5:14 pm Post subject: |
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| gswarbrick wrote: |
| Turismo wrote: |
| gswarbrick wrote: |
| throwing out whole teams when when rider fails a test, to be consistent with the ban on a team that shares nothing but a sponsor with a team that had *CENSORED* problems in the past... |
I assume this is in reference to Astana. Did you know that of their squad of thirty riders, seventeen were part of last year's "dirty" Astana? And hey, the team ownership has stayed the same too. And last year they made the exact same argument before bringing massive controversy to the Tour for the second year running. |
OK, let's take that as a starting point. Now tell me why the 'tough on *CENSORED*, tough on the causes of *CENSORED*' ASO decided not to mess up its flagship race part way through by throwing teams out this year? |
Well I guess the fact one was French might be a clue....  |
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Eeyore
E, Silver
Joined: 01 Nov 2002
Posts: 1625
Location: Derby
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Billynobrakes wrote: |
When he broke the rules, the rules stated he would get a 2 year ban, therefore he should get a two year ban, simple innit?
Yes, you are perfectly correct there.
Surely the question should be - 'should the rule be changed to allow for life bans to be imposed?' |
Yes, you are correct again here. You are looking at it sensibly, in the cold light of day. |
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Dogma Dave
Div 1 Pro
Joined: 08 Feb 2007
Posts: 6714
Location: God's Own County
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 8:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Eeyore wrote: |
| Billynobrakes wrote: |
When he broke the rules, the rules stated he would get a 2 year ban, therefore he should get a two year ban, simple innit?
Yes, you are perfectly correct there.
Surely the question should be - 'should the rule be changed to allow for life bans to be imposed?' |
Yes, you are correct again here. You are looking at it sensibly, in the cold light of day. |
Been quite warm here today. And light does not have a temperature per se. |
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gswarbrick
E, Gold
Joined: 14 Jun 2005
Posts: 2478
Location: Why would anyone care?
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climbingwizzkid
E, Gold
Joined: 08 Sep 2006
Posts: 2369
Location: ilson
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:05 pm Post subject: Re: Ricco 'Banned for Life'? |
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| Hans Datdodishes wrote: |
| Iain Bonsall wrote: |
| Lee wrote: |
| karlos wrote: |
should he be the first to be 'Banned for Life' ?
cast your vote in this 7 day poll |
Why, what has he done that is so much worse than anyoine else that is caught? And at least he's had the ball to fess up unlike most of the snivelling  .
Funny we all applaud Millar for doing the same and despite him not being a patch on his former self since his comeback stil believe he only took it when he said. However Ricco must be lying and should be banned for life??? |
I don't, shouldn't have done it in the first bloody place  |
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primalcarl
E, Bronze
Joined: 30 Mar 2007
Posts: 439
Location: Nr Exeter
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:35 pm Post subject: |
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| This was a guy who was arrogant, cocky and outspoken. Confident he could beat the system and beat the Tour. Why shouldn't he get a life ban? We don't need people like him in the sport |
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shortly
Cat 2 Groupie
Joined: 10 Apr 2006
Posts: 35
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Guess it has to be the 2 year ban by the rules.....but dont know about anyone else....I'm getting sick and tired of the guilty holding their hands up and sayiny sorry...I shouldnt have done....it was a mistake....etc etc. The sport dosnt want/need them. Best off without em !. Inc. past GB riders !! |
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Megman
Div 2 Pro
Joined: 11 Jul 2003
Posts: 5786
Location: Not in Lich any more
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| Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 8:54 am Post subject: |
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| Billynobrakes wrote: |
When he broke the rules, the rules stated he would get a 2 year ban, therefore he should get a two year ban, simple innit?
Surely the question should be - 'should the rule be changed to allow for life bans to be imposed?' |
There are life bans. 3rd offence is a life ban. |
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Lee
World Champ
Joined: 12 Jul 2002
Posts: 12612
Location: Hertfordshire
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| Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 8:56 am Post subject: |
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| primalcarl wrote: |
| This was a guy who was arrogant, cocky and outspoken. Confident he could beat the system and beat the Tour. Why shouldn't he get a life ban? We don't need people like him in the sport |
So somebody's personality should influence the length of the ban?
_________________
| Tucker wrote: |
| But, on reflection, you're probably right... |
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benlane
Div 3 Pro
Joined: 11 Oct 2006
Posts: 3960
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| Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 9:14 am Post subject: |
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| Lee wrote: |
| primalcarl wrote: |
| This was a guy who was arrogant, cocky and outspoken. Confident he could beat the system and beat the Tour. Why shouldn't he get a life ban? We don't need people like him in the sport |
So somebody's personality should influence the length of the ban? |
Good point Lee.
I would argue that if he was a clean athlete, he is just what the sport needs, someone a little contraversial who will shake things up.
Obviously, he is not clean so should serve his time as per the current legislation.
My personal viewpoint is get caught d oping once and your out for good, but as that is not an option at the moment. |
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Billynobrakes
Div 1 Pro
Joined: 30 Apr 2003
Posts: 7147
Location: Newark on Trent
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| Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 9:17 am Post subject: |
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| Megman wrote: |
| Billynobrakes wrote: |
When he broke the rules, the rules stated he would get a 2 year ban, therefore he should get a two year ban, simple innit?
Surely the question should be - 'should the rule be changed to allow for life bans to be imposed?' |
There are life bans. 3rd offence is a life ban. |
But this wasn't a third offence.
Didn't you read - he's never taken the stuff before - he was just a bit tired and needed something to perk him up for the Tour 
My point was that as the rules stand there is no debate over what his ban should be, it's pretty clearly stated that he'll be banned for two years.
However, given the currently climate and the drive to clean up the sport I think there's a good arguement to change the rules to zero tollerance and life bans in clear cut cases of blatent cheating like this one - doesn't change the Ricco situation though, he broke the rules and should be punished under the rules as they stood at that time, like I said, simple innit!
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Turismo
E, Silver
Joined: 27 Apr 2006
Posts: 1511
Location: Ealing
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| Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 9:59 am Post subject: |
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| gswarbrick wrote: |
| Turismo wrote: |
| gswarbrick wrote: |
| throwing out whole teams when when rider fails a test, to be consistent with the ban on a team that shares nothing but a sponsor with a team that had *CENSORED* problems in the past... |
I assume this is in reference to Astana. Did you know that of their squad of thirty riders, seventeen were part of last year's "dirty" Astana? And hey, the team ownership has stayed the same too. And last year they made the exact same argument before bringing massive controversy to the Tour for the second year running. |
OK, let's take that as a starting point. Now tell me why the 'tough on *CENSORED*, tough on the causes of *CENSORED*' ASO decided not to mess up its flagship race part way through by throwing teams out this year? |
Possibly because they dropped that part of the contract to provide slightly more allure to teams who'd be going against the UCI by riding? But I don't know. I don't speak for ASO.
Also, I'm not sure why you've suddenly deemed that the "starting point" in a thread that it has precisely nothing to do with. Was it just a way of making your own admission that Astana may not be the squeaky-clean, brand new team they're pretending to be? |
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Megman
Div 2 Pro
Joined: 11 Jul 2003
Posts: 5786
Location: Not in Lich any more
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| Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:06 am Post subject: |
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| Billynobrakes wrote: |
| Megman wrote: |
| Billynobrakes wrote: |
When he broke the rules, the rules stated he would get a 2 year ban, therefore he should get a two year ban, simple innit?
Surely the question should be - 'should the rule be changed to allow for life bans to be imposed?' |
There are life bans. 3rd offence is a life ban. |
But this wasn't a third offence.
Didn't you read - he's never taken the stuff before - he was just a bit tired and needed something to perk him up for the Tour |
I did read, but your question was 'should the rule be changed to allow for life bans to be imposed?'
They are allowed and you never specified 'for a first offence' |
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gswarbrick
E, Gold
Joined: 14 Jun 2005
Posts: 2478
Location: Why would anyone care?
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| Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:25 am Post subject: |
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| Turismo wrote: |
| I'm not sure why you've suddenly deemed that the "starting point" in a thread that it has precisely nothing to do with. |
It does have something to do with it. Although...
| Turismo wrote: |
| Was it just a way of making your own admission that Astana may not be the squeaky-clean, brand new team they're pretending to be? |
...it doesn't matter what your view is on Astana's present structure; the ASO's inconsistency points to an agenda that has nothing at all to do with cleaning up the sport and everything to do with removing any UCI influence over its events.
No matter what people think of the UCI, a commercial organisation breaking away from the sport's governing body in order to run its events to its commercial agenda is not going to end well...
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Guy Swarbrick
Editor
trackcycling
http://www.trackcycling.me.uk
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karlos
Cat 1 Groupie
Joined: 18 Apr 2007
Posts: 149
Location: sunny belper
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| Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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| if the riders don't play by the rules why should the race's governing bodies? whats to stop them 'the rule makers' saying 'ok we've had enough, obviously you think we're a soft touch so we're gonna ban you for life, how'd you like that?'. who's gonna stop em? if the ban gets over-ruled after being dragged for 2 years thru some euro-kangaroo court, ASO could then just not invite the riders team to the tour. saying 'you can't change the rules after the event' is utter hogwash, who says you can't? and also saying that 'its as simple as that', er no it isn't sherlock or else we wouldn't be debating it here. |
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gswarbrick
E, Gold
Joined: 14 Jun 2005
Posts: 2478
Location: Why would anyone care?
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| Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:24 pm Post subject: |
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| karlos wrote: |
| whats to stop them 'the rule makers' saying 'ok we've had enough, obviously you think we're a soft touch so we're gonna ban you for life, how'd you like that?'. who's gonna stop em? |
The Court for Arbitration in Sport can stop them and if anyone had the will to pursue it, it could overturn the ASO's refusals to invite teams...
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Guy Swarbrick
Editor
trackcycling
http://www.trackcycling.me.uk
You can also follow me on Twitter - gswarbrick and trackcycling |
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Lee
World Champ
Joined: 12 Jul 2002
Posts: 12612
Location: Hertfordshire
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| Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:24 pm Post subject: |
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| karlos wrote: |
| if the riders don't play by the rules why should the race's governing bodies? whats to stop them 'the rule makers' saying 'ok we've had enough, obviously you think we're a soft touch so we're gonna ban you for life, how'd you like that?'. who's gonna stop em? if the ban gets over-ruled after being dragged for 2 years thru some euro-kangaroo court, ASO could then just not invite the riders team to the tour. saying 'you can't change the rules after the event' is utter hogwash, who says you can't? and also saying that 'its as simple as that', er no it isn't sherlock or else we wouldn't be debating it here. |
Karlos, you arn't one of life's great thinkers are you.......
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| Tucker wrote: |
| But, on reflection, you're probably right... |
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karlos
Cat 1 Groupie
Joined: 18 Apr 2007
Posts: 149
Location: sunny belper
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| Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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| haha more of a little shlt-stirrer. i've an IQ as good as any US president i'll have you know. |
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karlos
Cat 1 Groupie
Joined: 18 Apr 2007
Posts: 149
Location: sunny belper
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| Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Lee wrote: |
| Karlos, you arn't one of life's great thinkers are you....... |
Hey Socrates, even rhetorical questions need question marks. Guess your not one of life's great spellers touché |
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