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| What's quicker? |
| A rear Mavic Comete disc with a road tub (270g) on it |
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78% |
[ 29 ] |
| A rear Campag Shamal with a track tub (170g) on it |
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21% |
[ 8 ] |
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| Total Votes : 37 |
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| Author |
Message |
Des
Moderator
Joined: 19 Apr 2002
Posts: 16900
Location: Harrow
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 Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 9:23 am Post subject: |
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Light track tubs are not faster when testing around Hillingdon when it decides to rain, as I found out last night. Punctured after 5 miles and then went extremely slow 
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mattr
World Champ
Joined: 16 Apr 2004
Posts: 12647
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| Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 9:31 am Post subject: |
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| John McC wrote: |
| martin smith wrote: |
| rolling resistance is insignificant compared to aerodynamics. end of. |
You are presuming a Shamal isn't an aerodynamic wheel. IT IS. |
compared to what?
a deemax with 2.6" DH knobblies on it.
or a disc? |
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martin smith
World Champ
Joined: 09 Jun 2003
Posts: 12187
Location: shoehorning kittens into jars
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| Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 9:43 am Post subject: |
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| John McC wrote: |
| martin smith wrote: |
| rolling resistance is insignificant compared to aerodynamics. end of. |
You are presuming a Shamal isn't an aerodynamic wheel. IT IS. |
not as aerodynamic as a disc. i also own a pair of shamals and a couple of discs, one with a heavy tub on, one with a dugast on. both are noticably faster than the shamal in the rear, and for that matter the 4 spoke as well.
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Des
Moderator
Joined: 19 Apr 2002
Posts: 16900
Location: Harrow
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| Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 9:48 am Post subject: |
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| martin smith wrote: |
| John McC wrote: |
| martin smith wrote: |
| rolling resistance is insignificant compared to aerodynamics. end of. |
You are presuming a Shamal isn't an aerodynamic wheel. IT IS. |
not as aerodynamic as a disc. i also own a pair of shamals and a couple of discs, one with a heavy tub on, one with a dugast on. both are noticably faster than the shamal in the rear, and for that matter the 4 spoke as well. |
Even when you're riding 
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martin smith
World Champ
Joined: 09 Jun 2003
Posts: 12187
Location: shoehorning kittens into jars
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| Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 9:56 am Post subject: |
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| Des wrote: |
| martin smith wrote: |
| John McC wrote: |
| martin smith wrote: |
| rolling resistance is insignificant compared to aerodynamics. end of. |
You are presuming a Shamal isn't an aerodynamic wheel. IT IS. |
not as aerodynamic as a disc. i also own a pair of shamals and a couple of discs, one with a heavy tub on, one with a dugast on. both are noticably faster than the shamal in the rear, and for that matter the 4 spoke as well. |
Even when you're riding |
faster than McC's lead out man anyway 
sadly not as fast as bushman and kevin barclay though. and we'll gloss over the devil result.
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Billy Boy
T de F Winner
Joined: 11 Aug 2003
Posts: 30726
Location: Not Aylesbury
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| Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 9:59 am Post subject: |
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| martin smith wrote: |
| Des wrote: |
| martin smith wrote: |
| John McC wrote: |
| martin smith wrote: |
| rolling resistance is insignificant compared to aerodynamics. end of. |
You are presuming a Shamal isn't an aerodynamic wheel. IT IS. |
not as aerodynamic as a disc. i also own a pair of shamals and a couple of discs, one with a heavy tub on, one with a dugast on. both are noticably faster than the shamal in the rear, and for that matter the 4 spoke as well. |
Even when you're riding |
faster than McC's lead out man anyway
sadly not as fast as bushman and kevin barclay though
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Beating me in a sprint isn't something to shout about. 
I think one of you should stick a disc in for the haybailing at Mildenhall and have a ride off.
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"Well done, you are 100% absolutely without a shadow of a doubt spot-bollock-on correct." - Tucker
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TBK
Div 3 Pro
Joined: 28 Oct 2003
Posts: 3984
Location: fighting the demons in my head........
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| Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:11 am Post subject: |
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indoors - disc
outdoors - rear shamal with front 3 or 4 spoke
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Andrew R
E, Silver
Joined: 04 Aug 2003
Posts: 684
Location: Not far from Kairdiff
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| Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:26 am Post subject: |
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Why not save any further arguments and stick a decent track tub on the disc ?
Anyone who can afford a Comete should be able to shell out for a decent track tub ?? |
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Billy Boy
T de F Winner
Joined: 11 Aug 2003
Posts: 30726
Location: Not Aylesbury
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| Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:35 am Post subject: |
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80% now. 
_________________
"Well done, you are 100% absolutely without a shadow of a doubt spot-bollock-on correct." - Tucker
"Eating is not for wimps" - coal miner
"most of us don't have your brilliance." - John McC |
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martin smith
World Champ
Joined: 09 Jun 2003
Posts: 12187
Location: shoehorning kittens into jars
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| Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:36 am Post subject: |
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| Billy Boy wrote: |
Beating me in a sprint isn't something to shout about.
I think one of you should stick a disc in for the haybailing at Mildenhall and have a ride off. |
think i'll stick the fluidisc in. it might not make me go faster but it would deafen the competition into submission.
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Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes. |
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martin smith
World Champ
Joined: 09 Jun 2003
Posts: 12187
Location: shoehorning kittens into jars
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| Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:37 am Post subject: |
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| TBK wrote: |
indoors - disc
outdoors - rear shamal with front 3 or 4 spoke |
unless it's so windy you can't keep a disc in a straight line it will still be faster.
and you just can't ride a carbon front wheel with a shamal rear. it's just wrong. either shamals front and rear, four spokes front and rear or a disc with any of the above.
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John McC
Moderator
Joined: 14 Jul 2003
Posts: 24510
Location: Leafy Barnet
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| Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 11:35 am Post subject: |
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| Andrew R wrote: |
Why not save any further arguments and stick a decent track tub on the disc ?
Anyone who can afford a Comete should be able to shell out for a decent track tub ?? |
My Zipp disk is for indoor use with the appropriate Pista Evo tub. The Comete I got second hand, and is for Welwyn.
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Billy Boy
T de F Winner
Joined: 11 Aug 2003
Posts: 30726
Location: Not Aylesbury
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| Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 11:42 am Post subject: |
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| John McC wrote: |
| Andrew R wrote: |
Why not save any further arguments and stick a decent track tub on the disc ?
Anyone who can afford a Comete should be able to shell out for a decent track tub ?? |
My Zipp disk is for indoor use with the appropriate Pista Evo tub. The Comete I got second hand, and is for Welwyn. |
And training sessions at Newport.
_________________
"Well done, you are 100% absolutely without a shadow of a doubt spot-bollock-on correct." - Tucker
"Eating is not for wimps" - coal miner
"most of us don't have your brilliance." - John McC |
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John McC
Moderator
Joined: 14 Jul 2003
Posts: 24510
Location: Leafy Barnet
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| Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 11:55 am Post subject: |
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| Billy Boy wrote: |
| And training sessions at Newport. |
£5k to you.
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John McClelland's victory in the motor paced event with Derek Marloe on the derny was a thing of beauty (Oldmanof) |
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Billy Boy
T de F Winner
Joined: 11 Aug 2003
Posts: 30726
Location: Not Aylesbury
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| Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:04 pm Post subject: |
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| John McC wrote: |
| Billy Boy wrote: |
| And training sessions at Newport. |
£5k to you. |
I'm alright Jack.
_________________
"Well done, you are 100% absolutely without a shadow of a doubt spot-bollock-on correct." - Tucker
"Eating is not for wimps" - coal miner
"most of us don't have your brilliance." - John McC |
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John McC
Moderator
Joined: 14 Jul 2003
Posts: 24510
Location: Leafy Barnet
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| Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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Oh, there was I thinking you had started this daft thread 
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John McClelland's victory in the motor paced event with Derek Marloe on the derny was a thing of beauty (Oldmanof) |
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Billy Boy
T de F Winner
Joined: 11 Aug 2003
Posts: 30726
Location: Not Aylesbury
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| Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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81%
_________________
"Well done, you are 100% absolutely without a shadow of a doubt spot-bollock-on correct." - Tucker
"Eating is not for wimps" - coal miner
"most of us don't have your brilliance." - John McC |
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Billy Boy
T de F Winner
Joined: 11 Aug 2003
Posts: 30726
Location: Not Aylesbury
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| Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 2:15 pm Post subject: |
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84%
Back o' the net! 
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"Well done, you are 100% absolutely without a shadow of a doubt spot-bollock-on correct." - Tucker
"Eating is not for wimps" - coal miner
"most of us don't have your brilliance." - John McC |
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babydinotrackboy
E, Bronze
Joined: 18 May 2008
Posts: 390
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| Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 11:53 am Post subject: |
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Try looking up wheel aero results on the net and you will find that shamals are, or certainly last time i looked were the most aerodanamic wheels bar discs. However the benifit of a disc at the rear is very minamal due to the turbulence the air has already encountered to get there. Rolling resistance of tires has a much bigger effect than most people realise, just try something like pista evo cs on your rollers then conti sprinters, massive difference. So I am agaisnt my better judgement but having to due to the simple physics of it going to have to agree with John......
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babydinotrackboy
E, Bronze
Joined: 18 May 2008
Posts: 390
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